Ep 45: Chris and Sarah Ashworth

Are you religious but struggle to find God? Or, do you wonder if God is even there? Do you or does someone you love manage to gain stints of sobriety, but without true healing?

If you relate to any of these questions, Chris and Sarah Ashworth’s story is just the one you need to hear. In this episode, Chris takes us on his journey from agnosticism to building a deep connection with God, and Sarah recounts her experiences of her own personal healing.

Chris grew up in what he says was a “happy home”, as a devoted member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. While family life was good, he fought a silent internal battle with pornography and masturbation from age 12 to 26. 

Sarah describes her childhood home a bit differently: one where both parents worked long hours, where divorce and abuse inflicted deep emotional wounds, and where family members mostly avoided one another. Regardless of this stark contrast in upbringing, Chris and Sarah would discover later on that they both had wounds that needed healing.

Sarah, who was also raised a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, always followed the rules but felt that God was very distant. She projected her relationship with her father on God - seeing Him as an aloof being to be feared. Chris didn’t think so much about God as much as he did “church” and “worthiness”, and was numb and distracted by addiction. 

By age 36, Chris had managed to gain meaningful sobriety, but was still in search of true healing. He had lived as an agnostic for years, so he had a decision to make as his son’s baptism day approached. Sarah urged Chris to find God, but he refused to do so. The day before the baptism, Chris decided that he would baptize his son, regardless of where his heart was at. Sarah refused and expressed what he already knew in his heart: he had “procrastinated the day of [his] repentance.”

Chris had arrived at spiritual “rock bottom”. He began writing prayers to a God he still questioned, sometimes even expressing anger and bitterness, until one day He answered. Shortly after, God came for Chris’s heart at a “Wild at Heart” retreat, where he claims he went from agnostic to Christian over a weekend. 

As Sarah watched God heal her husband’s heart, she felt hers being healed as well. She learned to have more humility with God. She started seeking Him out for validation and learned to trust that He’d take care of Chris. 

Chris went from being completely indifferent to the idea of a god to seeing God as his partner, friend, and father. He deliberately wakes up early to spend an hour or two with God every morning. His message to addicts is to find God as he did, by separating Him from church and religion, then to follow Him.

Find more at https://www.aliveinchrist.me

Ep 44: Keepin’ It Rhyll… SAL Style

Steve and Rhyll Croshaw have an amazing story. Rhyll was going to school and was taking a marriage and family class, and for one of her assignments, she needed to set up a community program. After that class, Steve and Rhyll started to think about how to help people the same way they had been helped through their recovery from addiction and trauma.

Heavenly Father also needed them to set this up. He knew that there were several men and women who needed this style of Sexaholics Anonymous. He put an attorney in their pathway, and it just so happened that he specialized in setting up non-profit businesses. Right then and there Rhyll and Steve knew that SAL needed to happen.

Steve and Rhyll put in the work and made SAL (SA Lifeline) a reality. They are truly grateful for the opportunity to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Rhyll talks about how SAL changed their lives. What they did not see as an unintended consequence was they have helped prevent their own grandchildren from going down this path. Rhyll talks about how her grandson said, “Grandpa, whenever I’m tempted, I’ll remember you.” Rhyll, then explained that she is so thankful that she married a valiant spirit.

Steve talks about how people need to choose to open up, to have a willing heart, and to work together with Heavenly Father and others who may be able to help them. This is where the SAL program can come into play. SAL is completely anonymous. What is SAL?

SAL is somewhere between the LDS 12-step program (ARP or Addiction Recovery Program) and SA (Sexaholics Anonymous). SA is extremely raw and they expect you to get a sponsor right away. There are a lot of raw stories that are told both from men and women. ARP is focused on Christ and they separate the men and women. A person can walk into an ARP meeting and leave without talking to a single person. SAL is between these two programs. SAL, expects you to have a sponsor and work the steps. Someone is there to help you through the steps. SAL requires more accountability than ARP and a lot less raw than SA. Some people say it is a perfect balance between the two.

Because Steve and Rhyll were able to find the peace and healing that comes through recovery, they chose to share their story and successes with others. They listened to the promptings of a loving Heavenly Father and are doing great and extraordinary things. Through their struggles and recovery from sexual addiction, they have seen the beauty and love of Christ and Heavenly Father.

We at Unashamed Unafraid are so thankful that people are admitting they need these resources. If this episode resonates with you, or you know someone who might benefit from it, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid, we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ. Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 43: Christian and Karen’s Story

In their book “Love and War” John and Stasi Eldredge say, “For it is also in the heart of a man and a woman to share some sort of quest, to fight some great battle together.” This is the compelling story of Christian and Karens’ battle.

Christian was first exposed to pornography in the form of magazines laying around the houses of his childhood friends. At first, it seemed innocent, even normal. Fast forward a few years into Christian and Karen’s marriage - Christian’s life is “hell”. He’s indulging in his addiction every day: viewing pornography, frequenting chat rooms, and indulging in extramarital affairs. Meanwhile, Karen instinctively feels that things are off but is completely unprepared for the bomb that’s about to drop.

The more Christian indulged in his addiction, the more he pushed God aside. Leading up to the height of his addiction, he had served a mission in Guatemala and prayed occasionally but ultimately felt that it was hard to find God. He would feel close to God at times but would eventually revert back to needing a fix. Karen had always had faith in God, but felt that the deep connection with Him was lacking.

Eventually, the crushing weight of guilt became unbearable and Christian began to confess his past mistakes to Karen. At first, he spotlighted only one of his affairs, but as he turned his heart to God he found the courage to make a full disclosure. At his rock bottom, Christian felt so much pain that he wondered whether or not life was worth living. This discovery absolutely destroyed Karen. In her darkest moments, she experienced anger, bitterness, loneliness, and betrayal.

As Christian attended recovery meetings and worked the twelve steps, hope began to grow in his heart. Where he once would’ve described his relationship with God as “casual”, he now says that “God is everything”. He knows that God loves him in spite of his past mistakes. Where Karen once blamed herself and felt it was her responsibility to “fix” Christian, she now feels God’s hand sustaining them both in the recovery process.

Christian and Karen continue to fight this battle together and have been changed for the better in the process. Their story is a testament that no one is ever too far gone and that God is always there supporting us whether or not we can feel it.

Ep 42: You Can't Talk About That Sherie

The UU Crew receives a ton of questions about how to talk about the dreadful and often shameful word sex with our kids. Well, the age old rule, at least when we were kids, was you can never talk about it. It was a terrible topic for us to talk to our parents about. The conversation was extremely awkward, shameful, or both. I know I regretted asking my parents to talk to them about sex. This is where Sherie Christiansen is a godsend.

Sherie works at Ado Recovery and Lakewood Family Therapy and has a website at www.sherieachristensen.com. She also has a book called, “My Body is a Gift from God” and provides online courses for betrayal trauma and healthy boundaries. Bottomline, Sherie is amazing when it comes to discussing the topic of sex with your kids.

Sherie dives into how to have the conversations with them at age appropriate levels. You as parents will know when it is the right time to talk to your kids about it. However, Sherie said, “Your kids are hearing about sex every day, so you might as well talk to them about it just as much.” There are several questions that the UU Crew asks Sherie.

1. How much of the “secrets of sex” can we tell them?

2. How do we take the shame out of the topic of sex?

3. How do we talk to them about this at an appropriate level?

4. How do we talk to our kids about our stories?

5. What are ways to get our kids comfortable with talking to us about sex?

6. Is it appropriate to continue to talk to our kids about sex when they are adults and married?

7. Is it okay for our kids to talk about sex and what we tell them to their friends?

The list goes on and on. Sherie unpacks all of those questions and more in this episode. Please have a listen. There will likely be future episodes that go deeper into some of the questions and information that is brought up by the group. Sherie is an amazing resource and we appreciate that she would take time to talk with us and our listeners who are Unashamed and Unafraid.

We at Unashamed Unafraid are so thankful that people are admitting they need these resources. If this episode resonates with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ. Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 41: Chris and Marilyn's Story

Steve and James sit down with Chris and Marilyn. Chris and Marilyn grew up together in Santa Monica, California as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As they phrase it, they were both “box checkers” - they went to church, served a mission, got married in the temple, had kids, and served in church callings. At age eleven Chris experienced two things that would dramatically change the trajectory of their lives for the next fifty years: He was sexually abused by his assistant scoutmaster and was introduced to pornography.

Chris

At the height of his addiction, Chris was going through the motions, but was completely “past feeling”. On one hand he was attending 12-step meetings, seeing a therapist, attending church every week, holding callings, being a father and grandfather; on the other he was viewing pornography daily, paying large sums of money for physical sex, and checking the boxes to make others happy. He knew he was going to hell but he didn’t care. He lived a fake life in church, work, and with his kids and grandkids. Inside, he was living in a dark hole.

Marilyn

After being married for some time, Marilyn began questioning what a “normal” marriage was supposed to look like. She found happiness in being wrapped up with being a mother to her kids, but also felt that her marriage lacked the closeness that she’d always wanted. She knew that something was wrong with Chris as he withdrew intimately and emotionally and even began encouraging her to watch pornographic material with him. This all caused Marilyn to feel that she was not good enough for Chris and that she was disappointing Heavenly Father for putting up with it. She didn’t know what to do, so she did nothing and things kept getting worse.

______

Chris

In Chris’s numbness and denial, he often fantasized about running away from the life that he hated. In December of 2016, he did just that. He left work at lunchtime, withdrew $40,000 from his savings account, bought a burner phone, packed a bag, and drove to Vegas. He checked into a horrible hotel on Fremont street and spent the night at strip clubs and with prostitutes. That next morning Chris woke up so physically ill that he thought he was going to die. After hearing a voice telling him to “call Marilyn” three times, he called his wife in tears and said “I’m sick and I need help. Can you come pick me up?”

Marilyn

On December 10, 2016, Marilyn had called Chris’s work twice to confirm that he wasn’t there. By 11:30pm she knew something was really wrong, so she checked their bank accounts and realized that four $10,000 withdrawals had been made earlier that day. She assumed that Chris was being extorted for money so she called the cops and got her kids involved. That next morning she received a call from Chris who explained between sobs that he was sick and needed help. Marilyn quickly came to the heartwrenching realization that Chris’s addiction had become physical and that he needed serious help.

______

Chris

Chris finally came to the realization of his wrongs after being checked into the Desert Solace in-patient rehab facility in St. George, Utah. He was only a shell of a man at that point and wondered how he had gotten to where he was. He knew that rehab was his chance to heal, or he would lose everything he had. In his own words, Chris says, “I learned more in 90 days about myself, about who I really am, my relationship with God and my Savior, and my relationship with other people than in my previous 62 years.

Marilyn

After dropping Chris off at rehab, Marilyn began to process the emotional trauma of discovering the depth of her husband’s addiction. Would she stay with him or not? After all, they had been married 41 years and she knew she couldn’t throw that away until she had exhausted everything she could do. Marilyn pleaded with Heavenly Father for help and was supported by an army of people who wanted to help. During the time Chris was in rehab she not only saw him transform before her eyes, but learned a lot about herself as well.

______

What do you know about God and Christ now that you didn’t know when you were sitting in that hotel in Fremont?

Chris

“First and foremost, I know he loves me very much. Unconditionally. No matter what. My experience is he loves me no matter what. I literally tried to run away from his love. He stopped me. Why? Because he loves me. I get to choose how I want to live in that love. I get to choose if I return that love. My ability to choose every single day is the most important thing I can have. Sometimes that’s all we can do - BELIEVE. If we believe and live like we believe, the gospel is so much simpler than we make it out to be.”

Marilyn

“I never delved into know a lot about God. I didn’t know who else to turn to so I asked Him “Are you really there?” I stopped praying so formally. I prayed like I was talking to my Father. He is there. He does answer prayers. I felt a calm and peace that I had never felt before. I knew he’d be there for me and wrap his arms around me. Did he really understand what I was going through? I came to understand that he does. I learned that he loves me no matter what. Whatever you’ve done, it’s okay. It’s not so bad that he won’t love you.”

______

Recovery Resources:

Chris Epson’s Blog: https://recovery-light-life.blogspot.com/ 

Desert Solace: Pornography & Sex Addiction Treatment

Website: https://desertsolace.com/

Email: info@desertsolace.com

David Thompson CSAT, LMFT, EMDR, EFT, 

Website: https://www.addorecovery.com/therapists/david-thompson

Email: info@addorecovery.com

We at Unashamed Unafraid are so thankful that people are willing to share their hard and vulnerable stories. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ. Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 40: Beckie Hennessy On Betrayal Trauma

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Beckie Hennessy is a licensed clinical mental health counsellor. She began her career specializing in child trauma. She then branched out into trauma in general and now specializes in relational trauma, also known as betrayal trauma. In this episode, Beckie explains how betrayal trauma affects the brain and confirms that it is actual trauma. She also delves into attachment and its relationship to trauma.

Beckie did her studies with the “Trauma Guru” Barbara Stephens. She says that trauma is when a person does not know how to process an event because it is too much to handle. When someone has trauma, they have three options at their disposal. They will either fight, run away or freeze. These are the only ways that a person can respond to traumatic situations.

Beckie elaborates on this and discusses that the brain gets hijacked because of the event. The event is too overwhelming because it completely shatters the reality of the person experiencing the traumatic event. Beckie gives an example of having emergency services rush past your vehicle as you are driving home only to discover that it is because your house is on fire.

But how does porn use and lying about it, equate to watching your house burn down? Beckie explains that it is about attachments and how people have their “person”. 

“When you pick your person and have sex with that person. When you pick your person and they hold your hair back while you’re puking your guts out because you are pregnant. And you find out that they are lying, for years, it is like your house is burning down inside you. You don’t know how to handle the situation.”

The reason for the trauma is because a person attaches themselves to another person and there is a life that is created and shared between them. When that life turns out to be a lie, it disrupts every part of the betrayed person’s life. This is called relational trauma. A lot of people associate relational trauma with codependency; and there is another term called pro-dependency.

Codependency is a very controversial topic because it says that you are pathologically flawed to the point that you will always choose the same type of person because you need them to be in your life. Pro-dependency is not a new concept but it is gaining popularity. Pro-dependency says that it is a learned behavior and not a permanent fixture. Becky assists people in understanding why they continually make the same choices and then helps them learn new habits. The way she does that is bringing us back to our foundation.

God should be our foundation. Is it just that easy? Yes! However, it is easier said than done. We have to choose to get our validation through Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ instead of other flawed people, including ourselves. Lacrae says, “You live by their acceptance and die by their rejection.” This is so true. And the truth is Dad will never reject you and me. That gives us all the chance to be unashamed and unafraid of what the world thinks.

This has been an amazing opportunity for us and hopefully you. We want to thank Beckie in helping us understand what Betrayal (Relational) Trauma is. She can be heard on the podcast. “The path of Imperfection” and on instagram @beckie.hennessy.lcsw or beckiehennessy.com. 

If this episode resonates with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Episode #39 with Thomas 2.0

Thomas’s story is a miraculous journey from egotistical denial, to desperate despair, and finally, to healthy healing. It is for the man that has been hiding for most of his life and for the woman who senses that addiction has robbed her of her husband’s love. It’s a story of how one couple went from total disconnection to daily emotional, spiritual, intellectual, and physical connection. It’s the story of “Dark to Light: My Recovery from Pornography and Lust” (for his full story, check out his book on Amazon), and the story of how “Thomas 2.0” came to be.

The story begins with Thomas being recruited at the age of eight to sing in the opera as a soprano. This isn’t the backdrop that you’d expect, which proves that pornography isn’t picky about how and where it chooses its victims. He discovered pornography backstage, and what started as a curiosity quickly transformed into an addiction. By age twelve Thomas was living a highly sexualized youth and began acting out with real people. Having incredible parents who spoke very openly about sexuality only propelled him further into shame.

Thomas managed to gain some sobriety while dating his wife, but only a few months of marriage went by before he was completely enveloped by his addiction again. His wife had health problems early on that affected their intimacy, so he turned to pornography and emotional affairs to cope. Thomas’s relationship with his wife was not the only one that suffered - through his pride and narcissistic tendencies he convinced himself that God would “beat him with a few stripes, then usher him in.” He thought he could continue to live out his little secret without consequence until one day the house of cards came crashing down. 

It was on a spring day in March 2016 that Thomas’s wife, who was still unaware of her husband’s addiction, decided that she had had enough. She came to Thomas and said, “I just don’t feel like you love me, so I just don’t think we’re going to make it.” Those words really pricked Thomas’s heart and for the first time he got a small glimpse into the pain he had caused his wife. In that moment he felt strongly that he had to tell his wife everything or lose her forever. So, he did, and that’s when healing began.

Thomas had previously thought that he’d rather get a divorce or die before giving a complete disclosure to his wife. While it wasn’t easy, Thomas is so grateful that his wife knows what she knows because “she’s [his] best friend in recovery, support person, accountability partner, she’s everything.” Their lives are so much better than they were in addiction and they experience deep emotional, intellectual, and spiritual intimacy. Thomas is now able to fight for his wife’s heart every day through service and love.

By diligently working the twelve steps, Thomas eventually experienced what he describes in his own words: “the polarity of my heart just flipped and I had no more desire to masturbate or look at pornography.” The peace in his life is so much better than the confusion, frustration, and anger that he felt before. For all those listening to or reading his story he wants you to know that recovery is possible. If this episode resonates with you, or you know someone who might benefit from listening, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 38: Disclosure: Do’s & Don’ts with Geoff Steurer

Disclosure: Do’s & Don’ts Way w/ Geoff Steurer

“Every day that you don’t tell your spouse about your addiction is one more day that she will feel you manipulated her.”

Geoff Steurer is a professional therapist from Lifestar Group in St. George, Utah. He co-wrote the book, “Love You, Hate the Porn.” He also has a podcast called Illuminate. He is an expert on disclosure. He walks through - with Chris and Steve - the right and wrong way to disclose the lies that addicts keep from their loved ones.  So jump into the deep end of disclosure.

Geoff starts it off by talking about how not to disclose. There are several examples from the UU crew that we could give. He talks about doing the “Driveby Disclosure.” This is when the addict admits their faults in a “safe” setting where their spouse cannot react to what they are hearing. One example is when a family is on their way to church. Another is at dinner with friends. These are good examples of how not to disclose.

Another example of how not to disclose is by just doing it al-a-carte style. This is where the addict picks and chooses what to disclose based on what the addict feels his/her spouse can handle at the time. This is not a good way to disclose because if the addict is still hanging onto secrets then it is very likely that the addict will continue in the addiction. This is because lies are and hidden truths are the lifeblood of addiction so they are not truly free from the addiction. They still need to numb the feelings of not disclosing everything. Chris gives the example of an affair that he held onto because nobody knew about it. However, he knew about it. The question then becomes, what are good examples of FULL disclosure?

Geoff begins explaining how proper disclosure causes less trauma for the spouse. First thing the addict needs to do is get out of the way. They have been lying to themselves for so long that they are not sure what the truth really is. Second, talk with a therapist and form a game plan. This is one of the major keys. Therapists are there to assist the addict and the betrayed. Oftentimes the therapist focuses on the addict and the betrayed have questions that come up. Some questions do not need to be answered and others do. The therapist can help navigate these difficult waters. It is crucial to get the help needed. So, when is the best time to disclose?

It is whenever there is a game plan in place. If the addict gets caught there are a couple of different ways to handle this. Tell your spouse the truth. Tell them everything right then and there, however this is kind of difficult because the addict will not have everything they need to assist with the trauma bomb that is dropped on the betrayed. Or, the addict can say, “I am getting help from a therapist and would love to schedule a time for you and I to go and talk with them about everything.” If they get a response, “NO!” then this could be the moment to talk about EVERYTHING. Without assistance with a therapist it could be a bad experience but, all disclosures are different. The situations are all different, but there is one goal in mind, that is to be COMPLETELY HONEST. It will not be easy, but this will show your spouse that you are ready to take responsibility for your actions. Geoff ended with this quote: 

“Every day that you don’t tell your spouse about your addiction is one more day that she will feel you manipulated her.”

Bottom line, there is no other way than to be honest to be free from any addiction. It is time to start the process of healing and becoming unashamed and unafraid through Jesus Christ. We at UnashamedUnafraid are so thankful that people are admitting they need these resources. If this episode resonates with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

EP:37 Anonymous Q&A withKristy

Anonymous Q&A with Kristy

Chris, James and Steve sit down with Kristy (James’ Beautiful Bride) and discuss anonymous questions submitted by our listeners.  The episode talks about two people’s questions. The first is a deep one that asks about wanting to change but not knowing how. The second has several sub-questions from a supporter’s viewpoint. These are two very brave people who are asking questions that all addicts and supporters have asked. Sit back and buckle up. This episode is epic!

Why do I continue to go back to porn when I love God so much?

This question is one that all addicts have asked. It is questions like, “Why can I not stop?” “What is wrong with me?” John Eldridge talks about how addicts are trying to search for God through addictions. It is just the most counterfeit and damaging way to find Him because it is not really a true connection with anyone. This response leads to more questions.

Why is the addict searching for the next high? What is the addict feeling about a situation, or life, that they want to “check out” for a while? Chris talked about how he kept a relapse journal to discover his feelings behind his addiction. He wanted to find the root cause of why he was being tempted. He would journal about how he was feeling and then refer back to that journal when the next temptation would arise. This proved extremely helpful to understand the feelings and be able to sit in them while reaching out to the real source (God) instead of the addiction.  Journaling is something that Chris learned through therapy and support groups, like LifteSTAR.

We at Unashamed Unafraid are thankful for this next set of questions from a woman who wants to support her son. She gives a little background about what is happening with her son. It is obvious how much she adores her son. The UU crew wishes that this concerned mother could be shared with the entire world. Because someone who feels deeply (and is willing to sit in the addiction with their loved ones) like this woman is exactly what an addict needs. Her questions could be the topic of an entire podcast episode. So let’s have a look at them.

1. Do you have any episodes of an addict who isn’t married?

2. Does it take someone being married to be ready to start healing and recovering?

3. Does the porn addiction also mean that they are sex addict?

4. Does porn use always lead to acting out with other people?

5. What advice would you give me?

6. What resources would you start with and recommend for me and the addict?

First off, this is exactly what people who are wanting to support an addict are doing. This woman knows she cannot change her son. She knows that he is the one who has to do it. However, she can be there as a beacon of hope and strength for him. She is giving him the space to be honest. So, the UU Crew talks about all of these questions and gives advice for where to start. 

These are the right questions to be asking if you are wanting to be there for a loved one struggling with addiction. Unashamed Unafraid does not have any episodes on single people who struggle with addiction, YET! We have had a few leads, but that is about it. We are asking that anyone who is struggling with a porn or sex addiction, please let us know if you want to tell your story. 

What is the difference between a porn and sex addiction?

Honestly, it can be used interchangeably. It all depends on which definition fits for each person. Steve likes to use the Sex Addiction Spectrum. What that means is a person can be addicted to porn or to sex. Sex with others (including mutliple partners) is on the far end of the spectrum; whereas, porn is on the opposite end of the spectrum. And, having a porn addiction does not mean that it will escalate to a prostitution or multiple partners addiction. 

What can someone do to help a loved one overcome an addiction? Where can they start the healing process?

Just be there for the person. Help them when they want help. They will ask for it if they know that the support is coming from love and not shame. It takes the addict time to recognize that too. Also, a supporter who shows them that the addict is in a judge free zone will likely be more vulnerable. Support can also come from gentle nudges with references to books or podcasts (Unashamed Unafraid of course) that the supporter has researched.

These are all really helpful resources, but everyone is different. Books could be a great start. Therapy is a very good place to begin. Therapists can help navigate the addict through all of the different resources available. All addicts will need certain types of resources at different times during their recovery. Just be there for them. 

We at UnashamedUnafraid are so thankful that people are willing to ask these hard and vulnerable questions. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 36: Seth & Nicole’s Story

Seth and Nicole’s Story of Grace

Seth and Nicole’s story is a story for the downtrodden and brokenhearted. Seth came from a home where it was frowned upon to talk about anatomy and clearly sex was off the table. Seth remembers that he told his dad about a time at school when a kid called his penis a weenie. Seth’s dad completely shamed him for talking about that with him. Seth learned that his dad was not a safe person to talk to about “inappropriate” topics. So instead of reaching out to someone else, Seth decided to reach inward.

Seth continued to look for validation through people and did not get anywhere with that. He was bullied and often rejected by his peers. He often felt inadequate about himself and that pushed him into seeking more validation. One night while he was at a sleepover with a friend, his friend showed him porn. He was hooked. He continued this practice up until his mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS). 

While Seth was on his mission, he felt like God had abandoned him. He was extremely sick on his mission. He was in and out of hospitals and finally was sent to California to finish out his mission. He was driven to calling 1-900 numbers and masturbating on his mission. He came home from his mission and decided to go to Ricks College (now BYU Idaho). Seth began to have relationships (hookups) with girls in college and he was unable to get validation from anywhere else in his opinion. He was disfellowshipped from his church and then he met Nicole after transferring to Idaho State University (ISU). 

Nicole grew up attending the LDS church as well. She has a typical LDS experience where she had a plan and it just did not work out the way she wanted it to. She always was self-conscious of her body because she felt like she was a little overweight. So she felt inadequate. Her plans continued to change and she decided to go on a mission for her church as well. She came home from her mission and met Seth at ISU. 

They decided to get married and Seth told her the abridged version of his actions and she, like a lot of women, did not fully understand the addiction. Within six months of them being married Seth was acting out. He would hookup with women he met on the internet. Nicole got pregnant shortly after they were married and they ended up losing that baby girl. 

Seth blamed himself for Nicole losing the baby. So, his shame was so bad that he talked to her and came forward about some of the “hookups” that were happening. He went and talked with his eclesiastical leader and was right back out there doing the same things again shortly after that confessional. They ended up getting pregnant again and had a baby girl. Seth came forward again and told her that he was having affairs and even sought out a prostitute. 

Nicole was distraught and did not know what to do. Seth was disfellowshipped again and was trying to do better. He then began to have a long-term relationship with a co-worker. This lasted six years where they would have oral sex but never “real” sex. Nicole was still in the dark about this. One day Seth found the website unashamedunafraid.com. 

Seth began to feel the shame that he had been trying to numb for years. This was back in 2016. He would listen to the recordings of Steven and Chris and Autumn over and over. One day while Nicole was at work and Seth was home, he prayed to God saying, “Please help me find a way to be honest with Nicole.” He was tired of the lies and coverups. He would get his chance two weeks later. 

Even though Nicole did not know, she felt prompted by the spirit saying, “You need to learn more about the Atonement.” She began her spiritual journey and began healing even before she found out about Seth’s lies. 

Seth finally received his chance to come clean. He was in an interview for a position in the church and finally confessed to someone that he probably should not take the position. He then explained everything to Nicole because he truly wanted to be free. Since February 2019, Seth has found healing, love and grace from his Savior Jesus Christ. He started his real recovery journey and has not looked back. Him and Nicole are both so grateful for the Savior and his healing powers of the atonement. They both are full of love and grace for each other. 

The final note they left was their favorite song that has meant the world to them is the song “Scars,” by I Am They. Please have a listen. We at Unashamed Unafraid are so thankful that people are willing to share their stories. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 35: Attachment with Troy Love

Attachments – We All Need ‘Em - Troy Love

 “The wounds inflicted are not what trips a person up. It is what a person believes about themselves because of those wounds.” 

Chris and Steve sit down with author and therapist Troy Love. Troy lives in Yuma  Arizona. He is a licensed clinical social worker. Troy has written three books that have been on the Amazon Best Sellers list. Troy has a firm belief that attachment wounds shape a person’s reality about the world and those around them, which most of the time is wrong. In this episode Troy talks about how attachment wounds play a vital role in sexual addiction. He also uses some personal experiences to bring this closer to home. Finally, he wraps up talking about how there is healing and hope from addiction through Christ. 

Troy describes that when a person is in a mother’s womb, they are literally connected after conception and continue to be attached for nine months. The connection between a mom and baby typically continues once a baby is born. Because everyone on earth is imperfect, connections start to break. They heal, but there is still pain around all of those connections because of the wounds a person receives. So why should someone care about this topic if they struggle with sexual addiction? Troy explains about six attachment wounds. They are:

1. Loss 

2. Rejection 

3. Neglect 

4. Abandonment 

5. Betrayal

6. Abuse

When a person has one or all of these wounds in their life, they tend to try to numb those feelings because they hurt so bad. Addiction is one way to numb those wounds. We seek out acceptance and belonging. For example, if a person has an abandonment wound, they will seek out porn to fill that void of being abandoned. Porn will never abandon a person. However, when a person partakes of porn, it hijacks the mind and emotions and people isolate themselves from others making them feel more abandoned and lonelier than before. Troy talks about his childhood and how he received some attachment wounds even though (at the time) he did not realize it.

Troy was adopted at 5 days old and would tell people that he was adopted. That led him to a question as to, “Why was I adopted?” Then in middle school, he was bullied. He perceived himself as being “not enough” and “there is something wrong with me.” These are the two wounds that he describes as his dominant wounds. Then his whole world changed because of a friend.

Someone introduced him to masturbation. He said, “Don’t do it, you won’t be able to stop.” Troy explains, “He was right. It was a medicine. I could not stop.” He felt like he could not talk to his bishop because he was afraid of rejection. A person makes life decisions based on those wounds.  The message that an addict receives from porn is you are special, you are wanted, but it is all counterfeit. It was all due to the fear of abandonment and rejection. After viewing porn and masturbating, a person feels worse about themselves and they cannot tell anyone, because “they would abandon them and reject them.” This drives an addict down the path of isolation. It is all because of this abandonment and rejection wound.

All addicts have to come to the realization that healing from an addiction is not really about the addiction, it is about the 6 attachment wound areas described above. The saying, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire” is true for addiction. The addiction is the smoke, and the true fire is these attachment wounds that an addict has received during their life. These wounds aren’t just inflicted and received as a child, as a person receives these attachment wounds throughout their life.

Troy continues to talk about the attachment spectrum. The following are from that spectrum: avoidant, anxious and secure. When a person is avoidant, they believe that they cannot be themselves around others. So they avoid showing up. When they are anxious, they tend to be very clingy and want to hold onto someone because they think they will be abandoned. Secure is the only attachment that really has a good foundational attachment. 

Since, this is a show about addiction and recovery, the two attachments that are talked about are avoidant and anxious. Both of the attachments make the reality that they are unlovable, unchosen, and people will leave. This is just not true. Those who truly love a person will stick around. There is also one person who will never abandon a person; Jesus Christ.  He will never abandon us. He will always love us, NO MATTER WHAT!!!!! Even if a person decides to continue in their addictions, Christ will always be there standing at the door. Troy talks about how walking through these wounds with his patients with Christ has brought healing and hope to everyone. 

Troy brings up making a list of what the judge (the negative thoughts inside our heads) is telling each one of us. He says this is a great way to break any of the agreements that we may have with ourselves because of “The Judge”. Troy then explains if we were to make a second list next to “The Judge’s” list, that says what God and Jesus Christ think and feel about us, we can start to see all the lies “The Judge” has convinced us are truths.

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 34: Tim and Callie's Story

Steve and Jason sit down with Tim and Callie as they share their story.  This is a story of true redemption, and not just for Tim. Tim and Callie talk about their stories individually and how they met. They then talk about how they both found redemption through the atonement and grace of Jesus Christ. 

Tim grew up in a home that was pretty stable and were good church-going people. Tim talked about how his earliest memories of acting out around the age of ten. He did not realize that these memories would be the first of many that would eat away at him and ensnare him. Tim struggled through many years of addiction without any help. There have been many leaders that have said, “Well, just stop it by singing a song or reading a scripture.” 

This does not work very well. It is like telling a person with a cut, “Just stop worrying about it and it will just go away.” It doesn’t work that way. Addicts need support and Tim just wasn’t getting it. So, he went on a mission thinking it wasn’t a big deal. He found resources at bookstores and other places to look at pictures and images while his mission companions were there for their own interests. 

Callie is Tim’s second wife because he did not get the help he needed due to the lack of resources available about sexual addiction in the 90’s. Tim was divorced from his first wife and then met Callie at church. Callie had never been married and they immediately had a special connection. They eventually got married without Tim letting her know about his secret life.

Callie found out about six years after they were married in 2011. Tim was gaslighting Callie for those six years and she felt like something was off the entire time. She found the proof that things were off because their son opened Tim’s phone one morning while he was sleeping. Callie picked it up to put it back and saw there were sexual conversations with a lady that Tim met during a choir rehearsal. 

Tim and the woman met online because of these rehearsals. Callie asked Tim to delete everything that connected Tim to this woman. So, he deleted the app and the messages from this woman. Callie decided a couple of months after that she would move to Utah and try to work through her betrayal trauma. She blamed herself and Tim let her.

Callie said that Tim should not be a part of the choir because the choir was created to celebrate the dedication of the new LDS temple in Tucson, AZ. Tim was acting as though she did not know what she was talking about and he blamed her for his addiction. She took all of that on and she spiraled being around him. So she decided to go home. She told her family everything.

When she went home Tim decided to get help. He started attending the LDS Church’s version of the 12-Step program called the Addiction Recovery Program (ARP). Before Callie left, Tim talked about how he was going to fight for the kids if they got a divorce. He continued to believe that he was able to go and sing in the dedication of the temple. This actually did not happen, why?

Tim allowed the spirit to start working in him. The night before Tim was going to sing, the spirit told him to call his ecclesiastical leader and confess everything. When that happened, He immediately became teachable and humbled. Tim’s leader took away his temple recommend (temple authorization) and he could not sing at the dedication. He told Callie how sorry he was and that he would do whatever it takes to get over this addiction. 

Callie decided to go back to Tucson and try to work through this with Tim. Tim did not really change all the way and he continued to hide things from Callie. There was a second “D-Day” or Disclosure day. This one really made Tim think and appreciate Callie and her willingness to stay with him. He also realized just how much his Heavenly Father loves him and how much Jesus Christ loves him. 

Tim continues to read several books about how much Christ loves him. There will be a list of them on the Unashamed website for reference. Tim and Callie have realized just what the atonement means to them. They have really felt God’s pure love because of it. Tim said, “You have to let the Savior help you. Callie agreed by saying, “You have to do this daily.”

Callie also talked about how an addict's issues are never the fault of the betrayed. And that the Savior is there for the betrayed as well as the addicted. Callie found comfort with this and decided to stay even though she could have done things on her own. She reiterates that the Savior is there for all.

The UU Crew is so thankful that Tim and Callie had the courage to tell their story. If this story touches your life or you know it will touch someone's, please consider sharing this with them. The UU Crew agrees with Tim and Callie about how they talked about the Savior. He is there for all. No matter what! The Savior is waiting for all to come to Him. He loves You! Let Him.

Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @UnashamedUnafraid.  Thank you for listening.

Ep 33: Chris and Autumn's Story

Steven and James sit down with our co-host and “Hulk of Hope” Chris and his wife Autumn Bennett. Chris talks about how he went from having multiple affairs to now over twelve years of sobriety.  Autumn shares how she went from trying to take her life to trusting Chris again.  They also talk about how they fight for each other's hearts. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them.

Steve starts off explaining that hearing Chris and Autumn’s story is what drove the inspiration of starting Unashamed Unafraid. They were the very first recording for the blog.  Chris then started into his story.

Growing Up

Chris was first introduced to pornography when he was 9 or 10 years old. He and some friends found some magazines. This is when masturbation started for him as well. Then he did that the majority of his life. He never told Autumn or his leaders about it.

Once they got married, Chris was still looking at it when it became available.  Then he stopped for a while.  When he started his mortgage company on his own, that was when his drive to look at porn became almost a daily occurrence for him. Within about 3 months of looking at porn so much, he decided to start an affair...

Autumn then talks about her childhood where she had some physical and emotional abuse by her stepparents.  Autumn met Chris in high school when she was dating one of his friends.  They became best friends and eventually started dating long after high school.  Chris had only disclosed that he had a problem with masturbation in the past, but that was it and he had stopped.  

After having their third child they both noticed they were fighting a lot.  Chris was also doing a lot of gaslighting to make Autumn look bad, especially in front of therapists.  They continued to fight more and more.  Chris was “working” longer hours and she started noticing a lot of changes in him.  He was different.  She would ask about having an affair, but Chris would always say no and that he wasn’t her dad because he had an affair on her mom.  That was a huge fear for Autumn.

Affairs Start

Chris’ first affair lasted for over 20 months.  He also had multiple affairs during this time as well.  He said Autumn knew, but she didn’t know.  She would ask if he was having affairs with certain people, but he would always deny it.  She even asked for his cell phone bill.  Chris then spent eight hours changing the details on the bill so he could prove he wasn’t having an affair.

James asked the question, “What kind of signs were you looking for or stood out that made you think this was going on?”  Autumn replied that the arguing got really bad and there was no more connection with each other.  They were best friends and were close, but that all went away as Chris was disconnected.  She said he became an ass.  So she started asking questions and would notice different behaviors when she would come to his office.  

Getting Caught 

Chris then got caught for one of the affairs.  He really wanted to not tell her about it and asked his Bishop if he could just not tell anyone.  He said he has to tell her because the disciplinary court would be held the following Sunday.  So he disclosed ONLY the affair he was caught for.  He went into the disciplinary court praying that they would excommunicate him from the church. He thought by doing this he could get away with not disclosing the additional affairs and could be rebaptized and forgiven for all his sins.  Then he could never tell Autumn.  This was something that kept Chris in the grips of Satan’s hands.  He was only disfellowshipped.

Chris continued in the affair he was having with the wife of his best friend.  He had started drinking as well.  One day while dropping this woman back off at her office, she received a call from her husband.  He had found out about the affair and had also called and told Autumn.  Chris jumped in his truck and started heading home while talking to Autumn.  By the time he got home he received a call from his mom.  She had beaten Chris to the home.  She walked in and found Autumn passed out on the floor as Autumn tried to take her life.  She immediately called Chris and told him and he called 911.  He then ran in their home and picked Autumn up into his arms as she would go in and out of consciousness.  He started praying and making a deal with God stating he would stop everything he was doing; the women, the porn, the masturbation, everything if He let her live.  Autumn spent three days in the ICU then spent another week at the LDS hospital.  

Chris slowly started coming out with who he had affairs with.  Autumn was right about every person she thought he had an affair with.  Chris still decided to not disclose one of the affairs as he justified that she had a family and if he had said anything, he would need to fire her.  He would die before he would tell anyone about the affair.  Again, this is one more way Satan had a grip on Chris’ life.  

Autumn’s Side of the Story - Attempted Suicide

Steve takes us back to Autumn to hear her side of the story.  She said they were going to counseling and meeting with a Bishop on a regular basis.  She was asking questions about her friend because she noticed things between her and Chris.  Then one day she received a bunch of calls from her friend’s husband and he told her about the affair.  Autumn thought this woman could come in and be a better wife to Chris and a better mom to her kids.  She called her mom and Chris’ mom to ask them to take care of her kids.  She told them she was going to kill herself and hung up.  Then Autumn tried to take her life.  

Once Autumn was in LDS hospital, she had her two Bishops come and gave her some great advice.  They told her they would support any decision she would make.  During this time she had a lot of time to pray and received confirmation she needed to stay with Chris.  She decided to stay and it wasn’t because of the money, the house, the kids.  She stayed because of the intense love she had for him and she had seen glimpses of the man he was supposed to be, and God said she needed to stay. 

Sexual Addiction Recovery Program

Chris and Autumn were then introduced to a sexual addiction program called LifeSTAR.  They didn’t want to go at first, but decided they needed to go.  They thought they would be alone but walked in and there were 36 other people.  This is the first time Chris didn’t feel alone in his addiction.  Chris then talks about the significance about Todd Olson.

During Chris’ second disciplinary course when he was excommunicated, there was a man in there who was asking a lot of great questions.  As they were walking away, Chris was crying to Autumn as that man was walking in front him and said, “There is something about that man Autumn.  I’m not sure what it is, but there is just something special about him.”  Two weeks later Autumn walked into LifeSTAR and this man, Todd Olson, pulled Autumn aside and asked her if she remembered him.  She said no.  Todd then said he was in her husband’s disciplinary court two weeks ago.  She then realized Todd was the man Chris was talking about.  God had placed Todd into their lives for a reason.  God had a plan for them.

Chris’ Change of Heart

Chris and Autumn thought they would be healed and good to go within about three months.  However, even though they were going through their recovery program, Chris was still lying.  Within a year after everything coming out, Chris started multiple affairs again.  He finally got to the point of where he hated the person he had become.  This was because he had gone to see a movie about Joseph Smith.  When he saw Joseph giving blessings to the women and children who were sick in the camp, that was when God reached down and told Chris he needed to change his life.  His family needed him to become a member of the church again and that he needed to disclose everything to Autumn.  After about two months, he finally had the courage to tell Autumn everything from when he was a child all the way through the rest of his life.  Autumn threatened to have Chris take a lie detector test.  This was also a motivating factor in Chris coming out with the details.  He didn’t want to fail it.  

Autumn’s Change of Heart

Autumn had been engaging in codependent behavior, or as she calls it “crazy-making”.  She was trying to control his recovery.  It finally got to a point where she was in her kitchen just pouring her heart out to God and asking him to take away her pain.  Even if it is for only five minutes.  God then told her, “You give me Chris.  You give him to me. You let me take Chris and I will take care of you.  I don’t know what the outcome will be, but I promise you will be okay.”  That is when she realized this was Chris’ addiction.  She finally came to Chris and made him feel safe enough to tell her what he had been doing.  She did this by telling him, “If you need to tell me something, I’ll be okay.  I know there is something you’re not telling me, but I will be okay.  I know there’s more, and if there is and you’re not ready to tell me, then let me know there is and that you’re not ready to tell me yet”.  Chris then told her he had been drinking thinking that would get her off his back.  She said that wasn’t it and there is more.  Chris agreed and then told her he has more to tell her but wasn’t ready and he would tell her at their counseling appointment on Tuesday.  This was a Friday night.

Chris disclosed everything at their appointment and Autumn left for a week to make some decisions.  This was the third time for disclosure.  She did a lot of praying that week and knew she would be okay.  She came home and told Chris that she couldn’t stay married to someone who wasn’t in recovery.  Like real, legit, recovery.  

Keys for Recovery

Chris started checking in with Autumn every night in four areas: physically, emotionally, spiritually, and sexually.  He was having slips with masturbation or lusting over women almost every day and telling her about it, but he was finally learning how to be honest.  They also created a 24-hour rule where if Chris had a slip, he had 24 hours to tell her.  The longest he made it was six hours because he didn’t want to beat himself up or freak out for the next 24 hours.  So he might as well tell her.  He then started reaching out to God, to men in recovery, and saying his prayers.  As he prayed, he was asking God how he can love his wife again.  How he could see her in a different light.  How he could see those things he fell in love with about her.  This is really when his recovery stepped up.  

Full disclosure was a huge patriot in his recovery.  Autumn said that once he disclosed everything, she knew he was finally being honest.  She said she could literally see the weight on his shoulders come off.  She watched him change right in front of her eyes.  She said she would take the worst truth over the littlest lie.  Chris also started really listening to Autumn and repeating and validating her feelings.  Chris told her she has full access to his computers and phone at any time and stopped being defensive.  

Autumn talks about a situation where Chris went downtown with some of his friends for General Conference.  After, they went to the City Creek Mall across the street for dinner.  One of the men Chris was with told Autumn that there was an absolutely beautiful woman who walked by, but Chris just put his head down and then continued talking after she went by.  Chris was finally living how he should be and doing it even when he wasn’t with Autumn. 

A Warrior Heart Boot Camp

In 2009 Chris went to the first Warrior Heart Boot Camp in Utah.  He literally had only $1 in his pocket.  His buddy Jim paid for Chris to attend.  That weekend changed both his and Jim’s lives forever.  It was something that changed the trajectory of Chris’ life.  Chris found how to create intimacy with God.  Chris was also able to deal with the feelings from when his father took his life when Chris was 17.  God showed Chris all the tender mercies and love notes he sends him.  Chris then decided it was a message he needed to be a part of.  He started helping with the marketing, then became the Prayer Team Lead, then became part of the Speaking Team, and is now also part of the Executive Team.

Autumn talked about how we need to go to God for our validation. God loves us for who we are.  We are already paid for.  We don’t have to hustle for Him.  We don’t need to hustle for His love.  He loves us for who we are right now for who you are.  No matter what you’ve done, where you’ve been, His love is not too far to reach you.  

Chris was rebaptized in 2010.  He now has over 12 years of sobriety from women and pornography and over 10 years of sobriety from masturbation.  Chris also started praying in the shower.  This has been huge for his recovery.  He always leaves the door open so Autumn can always see into the shower.  Then numerous times as temptations come, he knew that was his time to spend with God so he wouldn’t slip with masturbation.  

Final Words

Chris strongly suggests not doing multiple disclosures like he did.  Even if it is hard, it is best to get with a therapist and properly disclose with your spouse.  They also suggest not making a big decision in the relationship (like divorce) for at least a year. Chris and Autumn truly fight for each others’ hearts.  They truly love each other, and you can see that when you meet them.  

If you would like Chris and Autumn come speak to your congregation, you can reach Chris at chris@unashamedunafraid.com.  

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. We here at Unashamed Unafraid are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Christ Jesus; for that is such an important part of true and everlasting recovery from any addiction and trauma that we have all experienced.  Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid. Donate to help others in recovery at Here (UnashamedUnafraid.com/donate). Or reach out to a member of our team Here (hyperlink to team page)

Bonus: Q & A with Chris & Autumn and Sway & Rachel

This is a Bonus Episode for all of our listeners. Chris, Autumn, Sway and Rachel sat down on a live Zoom call and answered questions about safety, boundaries, recovery for addicts with only a few months of sobriety at a time, and many more. The panel answered about five times as many questions as usual in a normal Q&A episode. So there's a ton of great information here. They got real and honest about their own experiences and it was incredible hearing the spouse's perspective with the answers. 

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Remember to submit your anonymous questions online at UnashamedUnafraid.com so that others can find answers as well. 

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 32: Anonymous Q&A with Debbie Reid

Q&A with Debbie Reid

Steve and James sit down with Debbie Reid from LifeStar Salt Lake.  She is trained in trauma in  somatic experiencing and psychodrama therapy and runs LifeStar intensives in Salt Lake City and trauma groups in Tennessee. They answer five questions submitted by our listeners.  

Question 1 - My husband recently disclosed to me his multiple affairs and other online relationships. We are both working towards healing and recovery. He often comments that when he goes to church nobody else has "sins" as serious as his, so I really appreciate this open dialogue that others are willing to share about their own path back to healing and Christ. I realize that every recovery story is different, I'm just waiting to see how ours unfolds. I really appreciate hearing the story from the "addict’s" perspective, but I wondered if it was possible to hear from the wife's perspective too. I'm especially drawn to the most recent podcast with Matt's Recovery story. I would like to know a little about her own recovery and how she saw Matt's recovery from her perspective? Thanks!

Debbie: It seems like there is a longing for connection from the listener and is being drawn out of isolation. It reminds her of the story in the New Testament about where they are throwing stones at the adulter.  This was a turning point in James’ recovery.  She also talks about using affirmations because they are truth.

James: This is one of his favorite stories because he realized “God didn’t condemn me, so I don’t need to condemn me.” 

Steve: You’re not alone in your church. Many others are dealing with the same thing.  Rise Up Restored is a great podcast for this listener to hear more stories about betrayal trauma and how to heal from it.

Question 2 - I am trying to think how to word this question, I struggle with showing empathy and compassion towards others. I want to show this to those I love especially towards my wife who I have hurt the most. When situations arise when I know I should show empathy I don’t, my first reaction and thought is that I just don’t care. It seems I can show some empathy and compassion towards others but I really struggle doing this with my wife, instead I go to anger and frustration and just don’t know what to do. Why is it so hard to show empathy and compassion to my wife?

Steve: This is an incredibly honest question. How much empathy and compassion does he have for himself? It is hard to have and create empathy for someone when you don’t have it for yourself.  LaCrae said in his lyrics “ If you live by their acceptance, you’ll die by their rejection”. He also went on to say that you can’t give something you don’t have. Self-love. How can you show up for your wife if you can’t show up for yourself?  So show empathy for yourself, which will allow you to show empathy for your wife. 

Debbie:  Sometimes we go back into addictive thoughts and behaviors like turning the tables, blame, anger, or whatever I need to do to push people away.  We think it is easier to do this or is just the way we think.  We are seeking to get validation from others instead of looking to our Higher Power for validation. When we do this, these other outside sources will fail. We need to connect to our Higher Power through prayer or music and then sit with it. Just let our body and soul connect and feel that validation from God. 

Question 3 - Hello! I recently came across your podcast and am truly grateful for all the work you do into putting this together for those of us that are hurting. I am a wife of a recovering addict, and after listening to episode 17, Therons recovery story, A story of healing and redemption - October 25, 2019. I had to chime in. Over the past 20 years my husband and I have walked through some serious valleys and when I heard the term "firehosing" and the conversation around it, I thought I would share my perspective. Beginning roughly 2 months ago, we went through another round of getting busted/confession. Except this time, the pieces came in parts, every 2 weeks for a 6 week period. So when I first discovered (on our computer), there was a confession. Then for me began the processing/healing part... 2 weeks later I learned more (on his computer) so again, process/heal, 2 weeks later even more (via his cell phone private browser). Again, process/heal... When my world is falling apart and it feels like I can't even breathe, I would so much prefer all the information at once, slowly, humbly, as loving as possible, over being shattered and what feels like being gut-punched repeatedly over a 6 week period. It may be physically exhausting and painful and I agree it’s not an easy task for the offender, but is the reason for giving limited information just to stay out of the dog house for a long time? My husband's response to my question was "because I didn't want to hurt you" Really!?!? So here's my question, what's so wrong with firehosing? Because for the life of me, even with the understanding of how individualistic we all are, I just can't wrap my head around it. 

Steve: He relates this experience as when Kayla asked him directly if she would find anything and he said no.  He was amazed he said no even though he knew she would find things.  He explains why he isn’t honest when he knows she is going to find something. His whole life he’s been dishonest because of the shame he’s feeling.  It is all about shame as to why it is hard for the addict to come clean all at once.  

Debbie: She said there is a very high number of spouses who want to know, no matter how painful it is. It’s easier to move forward if you know everything in the beginning.  It is hard to move forward when disclosures keep coming. She relates it to being in the desert.  If you have a direction of where to go, it is easy to keep moving forward, but if there is no direction, you keep spinning your wheels and want to give up. She said you can firehose in a healthy way. She talks about using a letter in story format then for the spouse to write a list of questions. The therapist can help decide what would be helpful for her. She also suggests both have therapist support when disclosing. Take some time to prepare so things aren’t forgotten. 

Question 4 - As I’ve listened to your stories you have all mentioned how you felt numb to emotion. Steve, I remember when you disclosed to your wife with the therapist and she ran out and you were trying to make yourself feel something and I guess I’m just wondering why you stayed when you were numb? What made any of you decide to stay and fight? I guess the reason I’m asking is because my husband didn’t decide to stay. I don’t know if he was an addict...there were secrets, there were signs and gut feelings that something was off. I found out some things, but I never got angry or threatened divorce. I just begged him to tell me what I needed to change, but he just said whatever “this” was it couldn't be fixed. I listen to your podcast faithfully, it is my favorite one, so much of what you say and what your wives have said resonates with me. I don’t know what my story is, and so it’s been hard to heal when I’m not sure what broke. I guess I am just trying to make sense of it all, and I wonder what I could have done different to make him want to stay and try? What helps someone wake up or come out of that numbness and make them want to keep what they stand to loose? Also what have you guys told your kids? Nobody ever talks about the kids and I would love to hear your experiences. If they are old enough are they told the truth? My oldest daughter never got closure and over the years he’s told her a different narrative; one that involved me not loving him anymore and it breaks my heart.  I wonder how much damage has been done and what I should or shouldn’t have said? Thank you so much for this podcast, you have given me and so many others a deeper understanding of the Atonement and of love and courage and triumph and that is the greatest gift ever! 

Steve: He said everyone’s story is different. God has a beautiful life for everyone. When talking about an addict he said, “You’re not an all or nothing person”.  Meaning, that just because you struggle with an addiction, does not mean that is who you are.  You are a son of God who struggles.  There is more to a man than just being an addict. He also says that this is not her fault. There is nothing more she could’ve done.  This was something he is struggling with, but seems to have so much shame, he cannot bear to tell her.

Debbie: She also mentions there’s nothing she could’ve done to fix it. Love who you are regardless of whether you have been accepted by others or by your husband. Be who you are. When it comes to kids, she said to be honest and answer the questions they ask, but no more.   

Question 5 - Two years ago I found out about my husband's addiction. Three disclosures came later with information slowly trickling out including two emotional affairs. Each time he would quickly say a few things and then say, “well what about everything you’ve done? Our marriage discord isn’t about this.” A year ago after a few attempts at recovery my husband left in the dark of the night. I asked him last month if we could try six months of recovery; each working on ourselves and see where that put us. Decide whether we wanted to stay married. He said, “I am happy to help you heal. I’ll come to your therapy appointments. I’ll answer your questions. But I’m doing all I need to do.” I asked him if this meant he was working recovery. He said he didn’t need to be doing anything. He was “all good.” I filed for divorce on Monday. By Friday the nation had shut down. I lost my job. He is still able to work his two jobs full time. He has texted a couple times in the last two weeks. But will not talk to me face to face. Will not come to the door for the kids. Turns away if he sees me in the store. My question is this, “what brings a successful, strong, kind hearted man to live in his car, ignore his family during this time, and pretend his wife doesn’t exist? Is this hate for me?” What are your suggestions for me on how to navigate through this? I am in counseling. Group counseling and individual. I read as many books as I can find. I listen to podcasts including this amazing one! I’m asking your thoughts and suggestions on navigating with him? I’m at a complete loss as to the why of his behavior. My heart aches for him. His children miss him. They don’t understand. We have three adult children. He has pulled away except for the bare minimum for all of them. Please help a wife. I still love him and hoped we could work through this together. 

Debbie: She said there are so many layers of trauma. Our heart aches for you. It isn’t about hate for you, it is about hate for himself. And you and the kids are images of all of his failures. You need to have fulfillment regardless of who shows up in your space. She also suggest to go to solhealingforwomen.com to get more details about a weekend  intensive for betrayal trauma. 

James: He definitely recommends the women go to the Heart of a Woman retreat. There is so much great healing for them and their trauma. He has seen it over and over up there.  You can listen to more details about what the HOAW retreat is about here as we did a full episode about how it changed the three women we sponsored to go.  

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 31: Joe and Amy's Story

 Joe and Amy Pierson: Perspective Shift

Joe and Amy Pierson are amazing people. Chris and Steve had the privilege to talk with them about their story. They also talk very candidly about what it took to help them through Joe’s addiction. Joe talks about his experience of surrendering to Heavenly Father. Amy talks about her experience of surrendering her trauma and Joe to Him as well. Sit back and enjoy this amazing adventure of war and redemption.

Joe grew up in a home that was very shame based about sex and anything related to it. They could not even say the word pregnant. They had to say that someone was “expecting”. Joe remembers when he was on a business trip with his family where his mom and dad went out for a work dinner. Joe was the oldest on the trip. He has two older brothers who didn’t go on the trip. So he was left to be in charge of his younger siblings. While he was alone, he watched a movie on cable that showed people having sex. Joe did not know what to do with it. Joe ended up ejaculating and felt so ashamed of himself. He did not say anything to his parents. He kept it to himself and began his journey of trying to deal with his addiction on his own. 

While he was a teenager, he was given the book, “Miracle of Forgiveness” by Spencer W. Kimball. This book is no longer recommended by the LDS church .  It created a lot of shame and toxic guilt for those who read it and is no longer published. When Joe’s mom saw him with the book, she shamed Joe which drove him further into his addiction.

Joe continued to isolate himself away from those closest to him. He was sober from masturbation for over six months before his mission. Joe served an honorable mission even though during his last few weeks of the mission he masturbated in the shower. He decided that his mission was a failure because of this action. That was so far from the truth but because of the shame and guilt he received from himself and others around him, he suffered. Joe’s experience up to this point was completely opposite for his wife Amy.

Amy grew up in a family where sex was openly talked about. She remembers her mom yelling at her brothers if they spent too much time in the shower. She would yell, “QUIT MASTURBATING AND GET OUT OF THE SHOWER!” So naturally, Amy and her sisters would yell the same thing when they needed to get into the bathroom. Amy’s mom went as far as having the “M-Talk” with her brothers’ friends. Amy brought that same openness into a relationship with Joe.

Before Joe’s mission, Amy and him started dating, but only as friends. Amy had gone farther than kissing and hugging with previous boyfriends; however, never had sex before marrying Joe. She just wanted to date as friends especially because Joe was going on a mission soon and she did not want to be the reason he did not go. Amy dated even though she “technically” waited for Joe. Joe proposed to her within 24 hours of being home from his mission.

Joe and Amy were married nine weeks after he returned home. Joe assumed, like every other addict, the problem would go away because he could be fulfilled by Amy. Then, he found the internet. He knows that if he had access to pornography before the internet, he would have been addicted to it. He remembers using his sisters’ teen magazines to masturbate to. Amy started to sense Joe pulling away from her emotionally because he was looking at porn.

Joe and Amy are best friends and so Amy could just feel something was off. So, about 6 years after they were married, Amy was walking down the street and got this impression in her head, “Joe is looking at porn.” Amy immediately went home and opened the office door and said to Joe, “I know you’re looking at porn, you need to make an appointment with the bishop and you need to take care of it.” Joe was floored. He thought to himself, “How did she know?”

He scheduled an appointment with the bishop and met with him a couple of times. Joe thought he was fixed. Little did he know that he would spend the next two and a half decades battling this. In the height of his addiction, he would spend nights at the office and not come home. Amy was suffering but kept her composure and told him that she would never leave him. Joe continued to struggle and believed that he had  to earn the love of God. Amy finally broke after years and years of suffering in silence.

Amy had enough and told him that she was at the end of her rope. At the therapist’s office she said, “If Joe was not going to change, she could not stay with him.” She had finally let him go. She was making changes in her life and he was stagnant. When Amy first started her recovery journey, her therapist said to her that letting Joe go would be the hardest thing she would ever have to do. Amy confirmed that by stating, “It was like going through fire. But once I let him go, there was freedom.” Joe decided that he needed to do something different. Because Amy was leaving him in the dust.

Joe started to throw his recovery into high gear and get serious about his recovery. He stumbled across a video called, “The Shift” by Wayne Dyer. He then was hooked on Wayne Dyer books. He got another book from him and listened to it while he was pruning roses. Joe never was the gardener. Joe spent several weeks listening to the book, “Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life.” By Wayne Dyer. He connected with God in the most beautiful way. Joe finally opened his heart to God. Joe felt His love so profoundly, so completely, where in that moment God told him that He accepted Joe completely and wholly. And three plus decades of shame and guilt melted away from him.

Joe knew that there was nothing that he could do to take away the love that Heavenly Father felt for Joe. Joe was not the same person after that. It changed his concept of God. Joe knew that God was not there to judge him. He was there with love, compassion, kindness and forgiveness. He did not know what to do with that. Joe’s faith was shaken. When the shame washed away, so did the compulsion of the addiction. Joe was changed. 

Joe was hungry for more and he stumbled across Eckhart Tolle. He just knew God loved him unconditionally. Joe also read the book, “The Untethered Soul”. The last chapter asks the question, “What if God was not judgment? What if He was Love? What if we stayed in that moment?” Joe was on fire. Amy noticed that change and his fire. Amy, also noticed that her trauma was coming out with a vengeance! 

Amy remembers a time when she was sobbing uncontrollably in the closet and could not stop. Joe was beside himself because he couldn’t help her. He just continued to reassure her that he can handle it. And he did. Amy eventually began trusting Joe that he had changed. She was able to get help through therapy. Joe and Amy are constantly learning more and more about who God really is. They have the following motto for their family. “Your Worth Is Set. Everything Else is Just an Experience.”  

They end the podcast with the song, “No Longer Slaves” by Bethel Music. This emulates exactly what Joe and Amy feel about who God is and what he means to them. If this story resonates with you please feel free to share it with those who you think could benefit from it. We here at Unashamed Unafraid are extremely grateful for people like Joe and Amy Pierson for sharing their story with us. They are truly Outsiders! We love them and all of those who have supported this effort.

Ep 30: Jason's Story

Jason: Darth Vader of Audio

Our own Darth Vader of Audio, Jason, sits down with Steve and James to talk about his pornography addiction and how he found recovery through honesty and vulnerability. Jason grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints with a family that loved him. He talks about how his addiction affected his relationships with his wife, friends, and God. Through the grace of God, honesty, therapy, and vulnerability, Jason was rescued by our relentless God and has experienced profound changes in his life because of our Savior. If this story touches your life or you know it will touch someone's life, please consider sharing this with them.

Jason grew up in a loving home. He didn’t have many good friends as a young kid. He experienced some sexual trauma at a young age through hazing by some peers. Jason was introduced to pornography at age 9 and by age 15 he was seeking it out. He decided It wasn’t a big problem for him and he decided that he wanted to serve as a missionary for his church. While on his mission, Jason had a few issues with masturbation and worked through it with his mission president.

After returning home, Jason married his wife Katie, whom he had met in High School. He didn’t tell her about his addiction, and they went on to get married. He told her about it afterward, but described it as a problem that was in the past. A few months into their marriage, Katie found out that Jason had still been looking at pornography so they started therapy. 

Jason describes a relationship with God that is unwavering. He says he never doubted God’s love for him, even when he was struggling with his addiction. After a few years, Jason stopped going to therapy because he was comfortable with his situation. Jason fell back into his addiction and for 5 years he was secretly viewing pornography. Eventually, Jason started drinking and was viewing pornography daily. He was slowly losing his relationship with God, his wife, and his friends, then went into a faith crisis.

At the point he had decided to walk away from his faith, Jason describes how God showed up for him in a personal way. Jason chose to embrace honesty and pursue true recovery. Recognizing that he couldn’t win this fight on his own, Jason learned to truly surrender. He started to recognize that only God could take this burden from him. He learned to be humble, honest, let go of his self-will, to follow the 12 step program, and stop trying to control outcomes. 

Jason shares his keys to recovery. Things such as books like Fathered by God, podcasts like UnashamedUnafraid, brotherhood, connection, vulnerability, and 12 step meetings. His relationship with God has been deepened and strengthened. He now is filled with peace, love, and joy. 

The UU Crew is so thankful that Jason has entered their fellowship. If this story touches your life or you know it will touch someone's life, please consider sharing this with them.  Please follow us on Instagram and Facebook at @UnashamedUnafraid and please rate us on iTunes.

Ep 29: Anonymous Q&A with Autumn

Q&A - Answers from Autumn and the UU Crew

The UU Crew sits down with Autumn (Chris’ wife) and answers three questions from anonymous sources. The first question is extremely difficult to get through, so be careful if listening around impressionable little minds. It is a very difficult question. The others are not as heavy.

Question 1 asks if her ex-boyfriend may have raped her. She mentioned that he would ask her to have sex with her and if she said no that he would kill himself, completely manipulating the situation. She did not want to be “responsible” for his death so she agreed and he would then be extremely aggressive and hurt her badly. This left her bruised and hurt, not only physically but emotionally as well. This is called Gaslighting! And is called RAPE!!!! There is so much more that went on in this relationship. The good news for her is there are resources and help that she can receive from this trauma. Just know if this is happening to you, there is help available. 

Autumn goes on and reads what rape and assault are. This is such a sensitive subject to talk about. She talks about the help and the resources available for victims. The first one is to go and talk to someone who may not know the person that is abusing the victim, but can be trusted. The second is to go and talk with a victim advocate (probably with that trusted friend by the victim’s side) so that the victim can feel the support needed from a trusted friend. The third resource is to go and file a police report (if the victim feels comfortable with that) and have the victim advocate and the friend be a part of the journey. 

There really has to be a connection with trusted individuals in this journey. And knowing that a person is not alone in this scary time is very important. If the victim is in Utah, the best online resource is TheRapeRecoveryCenter.org. The hotline to call is: (801) 467-7273. However, this website can direct the victim to the help center nearest to them. 

The nationwide organization is: RAINN 800.656.HOPE (4673), the national sexual assault telephone hotline. Victims can also go online and chat with someone on rainn.org. These resources can be a big help for victims. 

Question 2 also deals with getting help. This is more for the addict versus the betrayed. The questioner asks about in-patient options and all options for addicts to obtain the help that they need to get out of the addiction cycle. Steve mentions three inpatient resources to get the help addicts and loved ones of addicts can receive. The first one is Paradise Creek in Logan, Utah. The second place is called Desert Solace; which is located in St. George, Utah.  The third option is The Meadows as probably the best inpatient option. 

There are several out-patient options too that we discuss. One option is LifeStar Network which is in Salt Lake City, Utah. This one is six days a week and the addict is there from 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. LifeStar could be a great option because there have been a lot of people who have gone through Intensive Outpatient (IOP) therapy who have had a lot of success with it. There are also self-driven therapy groups. None of the UU crew have gone through the self-directed version of therapy though. However, any one of these could be the answer that God is telling the addict to use. It just depends on the addict and their commitment to recovery that will assist in this process.

SAnon and SA Lifeline are two great resources for the betrayed. This is a great way for the betrayed to get help. They will be able to work through their trauma experience. There is an example that the UU Crew talks about that the husband and wife going through the IOP at LifeStar. 

Question 3 asks about how to speak with God and how to receive His love. This question is basically the “Wild At Heart” (Warrior Heart Boot Camp, in Utah) [episode 15]. He asks about how God’s children can see His “Love Notes”. Love notes are the way that Heavenly Father talks to His children’s hearts. Examples of these love notes are: sunsets, northern lights, animals, birds, rocks shaped like hearts, and specific ways that will touch each individual heart. 

These notes are individualistic. This is the best way for Heavenly Father to show His children He is there. He wants to speak to His children, but His children are the ones who must invite Him in. He is waiting for you to invite Him into your heart.  Bottom line is Heavenly Father will show up if there is an invite. He will show up in ways that can be so personal for the individual that the reaction is just to cry. All of His children are longing to be seen. He wants to show up for them too. 

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 28: Steve and Kayla: Love Through It All

Our Rapper host’s story is similar to a lot of men who struggle with sexual addiction in that the start of his addiction happened long before he was a full-grown adult. At age 11 extensive sexual abuse was discovered within his family and extended family. For Steven, it was like he grew up in a moment and was left very alone. People in his life who should have been there for him just couldn't be because they couldn't even be there for themselves.  He remembers at about age twelve sitting in a therapist's office and having her confirm basically that he was alone (emotionally). He decided that since no one was ever going to be there for him, he wasn't ever going to need anyone. Steven got some help from the adversary on that one (read Wild at Heart). He was 12 when he first remembers seeing pornography and masturbating. His first encounter was just stumbling across it innocently on the Internet. 

As he continued to grow up, pornography and masturbation became more consistent, along with other sexual acting out behaviors.  He then started to develop a dual life...big time. He was raised as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and despite his family's struggles they were still relatively active in the church and Steven knew that his siblings and parents believed in Christ for real. As a kid, he did gain a testimony of Christ and wanted to serve an LDS two-year mission. He went to his bishop (congregation leader/pastor) and confessed about 3/4 of his sexual behavior, leaving out that he had sex multiple times in high school.

After serving a mission in Baltimore, Maryland Steven was on fire with God's love and was committed to not falling back into his addiction. However, his sobriety lasted about three months. He had started viewing pornography consistently and finally went to his bishop to talk.  He didn't like his addiction, but he wasn't ready to change, so everything formed into a justification for his denial. The thing he learned about denial is that it is not only about lying to everyone else, but it’s also about lying to yourself. He told himself, "I don't need to tell anyone or bring this up anymore. God knows I am working on it (which he wasn't) so I can keep this to myself (advice of the adversary) and keep 'working on it' (aka quit every night before he goes to bed)".  He continued to have success on the exterior parts of his life and used that success to re-enforce his denial and justification. That was the basis for his denial of his dual life and his addiction took off.

Kayla grew up following Christ. She tried really hard to do what was right and she had a mom and dad who were very involved in her life. She worked really hard and was diligent about living a life without sin or making big mistakes. Kayla and Steven met when he was freestyle rapping at the gateway in 2010 and were married in September of 2011. Although a couple of things came to Kayla’s attention while dating, Steven gaslighted and minimized so that when they got married Kayla had no idea about the addiction.   

What was once a gap between the two versions of Steven in his dual life was quickly becoming a huge chasm.  On the surface, he was working in the temple (a very sacred place of worship), getting married, serving in a bishopric (congregational leadership), going to college, and getting into his career. On the inside, he was not ever getting real with God about his issues, was in total denial, was seeing his addiction escalating completely unchecked, and was totally destroying himself (lots of shame). This led him to the height of his addiction. At that time he was masturbating and viewing pornography daily and starting to see prostitutes, which continued for several years. He facilitated it all by stealing money from a business he managed for family. This pattern started not long after his mission and continued until April 2014. All the time Kayla had no idea about his dual life.

In April 2014 Kayla went out of town for about a week, so Steven was left home alone. He used this time to binge in his addiction. In this binge weekend, he had no plans and had nowhere to be. It was really the first time he had to just sit with himself in his addiction. He describes that there was a lot of grace from God at this moment because he was able to see past some of the numbness and denial and ask himself, "Why I am doing what I'm doing when I know what I know"?  He knew God loved him. He had seen God's work in lots of other people’s lives and had witnessed those experiences. He didn't know if he'd get divorced, excommunicated from the church, etc., but he knew he couldn't keep going on like this. So he jumped. 

When Kayla came home he picked her up at the airport and went straight to a therapist’s office and he commenced telling her everything. Needless to say, it didn’t go well at all. Kayla had no idea and was truly blindsided. Steven said, “I don't think I will ever really understand how horrible that experience was for her.” Although Kayla had all of the emotions that come with the devastation of experiencing betrayal trauma she also had some powerful experiences with God that made her believe there was meaning and purpose for staying with Steven.

Steven’s first stop was the LifeStar IOP (Intensive Outpatient Program) in May 2014, then the LifeStar 3-Phase program with individual therapy and couples therapy. He went through formal church discipline and was disfellowshipped. Over time, staying honest has been one of the hardest parts of recovery for Steven. He came back into full fellowship in the church in September 2015 (16 months). In December of 2016, he had an acting out experience he chose to not be honest about. He chose to justify that he could keep that one to himself and still work recovery. Steven said, “Yup, just as I’m sure you’re thinking right now, that does not work.” He continued to have sporadic slips with masturbation and pornography, which sometimes he would disclose and sometimes not. In the spring of 2018, he had two more acting out experiences. Still doing a lot of recovery work, albeit on his dual life terms, God continued to prompt him to get 100% honest and back in full recovery. With God’s help in August of 2018, he came forward and was again 100% honest. In December of 2018, he was excommunicated from the LDS church.  

Steven and Kayla’s relationship has been like watching the grass grow.  There haven't been these moments where it was like a "magic wand" and their relationship just got so much better.  But over time they have seen change, growth, regaining of trust and are happier. The lack of honesty has been, by far the hardest thing for Kayla. However, despite the ups and downs, she has felt like Steven is changing and she is too. In January of 2019, Steven’s recovery hit its low point when he acted out again with another woman. This took him beyond a place where he could justify, deny, or carry himself out of. “That is the darkest I have ever seen him,” Kayla shared. This forced Steven and Kayla to choose a life of surrender with God or break. Both of them describe how recovery has been so different since that time and how they have continued to find healing and recovery. We often end podcasts by asking the couple who share what they would tell those struggling out there. From our My Story page here is what Steven would say:

I am broken and believe I will only fully heal by turning my heart to God. Despite my struggles, I am still unashamed as ever and working hard on being unafraid to come unto Christ for myself. I intentionally wanted to share my story not being "perfect" or 100% recovered because I'm unashamed.  I know I will find 100% sobriety sooner rather than later. I don’t believe I will have to struggle my whole life. Kayla believes this too. Even though I have continued to give her every reason not to, she does. This has truly been one of the greatest graces of my life. I am so ashamed about how much pain I have caused her and hope for her healing more than my own. I will continually have stories of men on the podcast from months of sobriety not looking back, to men who have five-plus years of sobriety and can't believe they were ever addicted.  I know God loves me and He loves you. My hope is that by sharing my story in a vulnerable, open way, you can have the courage to share your story, reach out, get help, and get loved. If you are struggling with addiction I want you to know you don't have to! You are not alone! The adversary wants you to think that if you come out of your addiction, or really try and tackle it, that everyone will hate you, that your wife will leave you, that your kids will hate you, and that God will slam the door on you. Don't believe it!  Reach out and see! 

"I said there's plenty people like me, all outsiders like me, and all unashamed and all unafraid to live out what they supposed to be "outsiders - Lecrae 

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ... I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU." John 14: 1,18

"What must the sheep do to qualify for this divine help? Does the sheep need to know how to use a complicated sextant to calculate its coordinates? Does it need to be able to use a GPS to define its position? Does it have to have the expertise to create an app that will call for help? Does the sheep need endorsements by a sponsor before the Good Shepherd will come to the rescue? No. Certainly not! The sheep is worthy of divine rescue simply because it is loved by the Good Shepherd."  He Will Place You on His Shoulders and Carry You Home - Dieter F. Uchtdorf

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. We here at Unashamed Unafraid are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Christ Jesus; for that is such an important part of true and everlasting recovery from any addiction and trauma that we have all experienced.  Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid. Donate to help others in recovery at Here. Or reach out to a member of our team Here.

Ep 26: Hope And Healing Support with Michelle

Steve, James and Kayla sit down with the owner/administrator of the website hopeandhealingsupport.com. While running a website to bring people to Christ, she found that her website was being inundated with questions about addiction and recovery for the betrayed. So she started the website hopeandhealingsupport.com. Her website has information for women affected by the sexual addiction of a loved one.  

Michelle began by discussing what hopeandhealingsupport.com is all about. She talked about how much her eyes opened to the need of help with betrayal trauma. She mentioned the hope that the betrayed and addicted feel after going to the website forum. The entire reason why Michelle decided to start this website was to bring people together and provide hope during a dark time in people’s lives. Steve and Kayla also expressed the positivity of what the website was able to do for them during the first stages of their recovery. 

Kayla mentioned that all of these types of resources assisted her in understanding how to go through this recovery for her and what things she changed because of available resources like Hope and Healing. Kayla said that she learned about surrendering her control of Steve and his addiction over to God. She also understands that this is Steve’s choice whether he surrenders to God or not. That gives Kayla a lot of peace that she can control what she decides and leave the rest to God. Kayla also mentioned she cannot be the fixer of his problems. She realized that God is the only one who can take it from Steve. This was not very surprising to Michelle.

Michelle talked about how she sees patterns of how the betrayed begin their journey and those who truly want to recover from the trauma will follow it. She also realized that the gospel is much deeper than just checking boxes. She has been able to see a deeper part of God’s plan for agency because of seeing the betrayed surrender. This was one of the key principles that women have to understand before they can truly recover.

Michelle also describes that women must get out of isolation quickly. The resources available can assist the women in healing more quickly. However, it can be difficult to find a community of healing; especially, when women are too embarrassed to talk about it openly. But, there are those resources. There are online meetings, phone meetings, and meetings in different churches. These are only a few select number of resources.

Another resource for women is therapy. Most loved ones will need therapy when dealing with betrayal trauma. Women need to understand self-awareness about their trauma. Women also need to reconnect into their own self-care with other women. They also must reconnect to their spiritual self-care. They cannot go into the “try-harder” gospel. Isolation is not the solution. Trauma patients need to adjust the way they do things to recover from the trauma. Which brought up a question about “God trauma”.

Kayla said that God trauma has been pretty big for her because it was so clear that she was supposed to marry Steven. She was shattered when she found out about Steve's addiction. She wanted to know why she felt so sure that God wanted to marry Steven even though he was so broken. 

Kayla understands now that God gave her Steve because she needed to see that despite Steve’s brokenness, she found the gratitude in how good a man Steven is. Steve is one of the good ones because he is trying to recover. She also sees that this trial came to pass. She said that her marriage is better than it could have been, had they not gone through this. While some  betrayed get to a place of gratitude for their trials, there are still those who decide to remain in anger and shame.

The question was asked about why there is still so much anger and shame around addiction and recovery. Michelle mentioned there will always be anger and shaming websites because when those who have been betrayed first reach out, they want to fix it and so they try to fix the outer problem first. When they are ready to fix the inner problems, that is when they turn away from the anger and start to heal through love and connection. It was an amazing opportunity to meet with Michelle and see just how much she believes that there truly is hope during the healing process.

We greatly appreciate Michelle sharing her heart with us. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At UnashamedUnafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.