Ep 32: Anonymous Q&A with Debbie Reid
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Q&A with Debbie Reid
Steve and James sit down with Debbie Reid from LifeStar Salt Lake. She is trained in trauma in somatic experiencing and psychodrama therapy and runs LifeStar intensives in Salt Lake City and trauma groups in Tennessee. They answer five questions submitted by our listeners.
Question 1 - My husband recently disclosed to me his multiple affairs and other online relationships. We are both working towards healing and recovery. He often comments that when he goes to church nobody else has "sins" as serious as his, so I really appreciate this open dialogue that others are willing to share about their own path back to healing and Christ. I realize that every recovery story is different, I'm just waiting to see how ours unfolds. I really appreciate hearing the story from the "addict’s" perspective, but I wondered if it was possible to hear from the wife's perspective too. I'm especially drawn to the most recent podcast with Matt's Recovery story. I would like to know a little about her own recovery and how she saw Matt's recovery from her perspective? Thanks!
Debbie: It seems like there is a longing for connection from the listener and is being drawn out of isolation. It reminds her of the story in the New Testament about where they are throwing stones at the adulter. This was a turning point in James’ recovery. She also talks about using affirmations because they are truth.
James: This is one of his favorite stories because he realized “God didn’t condemn me, so I don’t need to condemn me.”
Steve: You’re not alone in your church. Many others are dealing with the same thing. Rise Up Restored is a great podcast for this listener to hear more stories about betrayal trauma and how to heal from it.
Question 2 - I am trying to think how to word this question, I struggle with showing empathy and compassion towards others. I want to show this to those I love especially towards my wife who I have hurt the most. When situations arise when I know I should show empathy I don’t, my first reaction and thought is that I just don’t care. It seems I can show some empathy and compassion towards others but I really struggle doing this with my wife, instead I go to anger and frustration and just don’t know what to do. Why is it so hard to show empathy and compassion to my wife?
Steve: This is an incredibly honest question. How much empathy and compassion does he have for himself? It is hard to have and create empathy for someone when you don’t have it for yourself. LaCrae said in his lyrics “ If you live by their acceptance, you’ll die by their rejection”. He also went on to say that you can’t give something you don’t have. Self-love. How can you show up for your wife if you can’t show up for yourself? So show empathy for yourself, which will allow you to show empathy for your wife.
Debbie: Sometimes we go back into addictive thoughts and behaviors like turning the tables, blame, anger, or whatever I need to do to push people away. We think it is easier to do this or is just the way we think. We are seeking to get validation from others instead of looking to our Higher Power for validation. When we do this, these other outside sources will fail. We need to connect to our Higher Power through prayer or music and then sit with it. Just let our body and soul connect and feel that validation from God.
Question 3 - Hello! I recently came across your podcast and am truly grateful for all the work you do into putting this together for those of us that are hurting. I am a wife of a recovering addict, and after listening to episode 17, Therons recovery story, A story of healing and redemption - October 25, 2019. I had to chime in. Over the past 20 years my husband and I have walked through some serious valleys and when I heard the term "firehosing" and the conversation around it, I thought I would share my perspective. Beginning roughly 2 months ago, we went through another round of getting busted/confession. Except this time, the pieces came in parts, every 2 weeks for a 6 week period. So when I first discovered (on our computer), there was a confession. Then for me began the processing/healing part... 2 weeks later I learned more (on his computer) so again, process/heal, 2 weeks later even more (via his cell phone private browser). Again, process/heal... When my world is falling apart and it feels like I can't even breathe, I would so much prefer all the information at once, slowly, humbly, as loving as possible, over being shattered and what feels like being gut-punched repeatedly over a 6 week period. It may be physically exhausting and painful and I agree it’s not an easy task for the offender, but is the reason for giving limited information just to stay out of the dog house for a long time? My husband's response to my question was "because I didn't want to hurt you" Really!?!? So here's my question, what's so wrong with firehosing? Because for the life of me, even with the understanding of how individualistic we all are, I just can't wrap my head around it.
Steve: He relates this experience as when Kayla asked him directly if she would find anything and he said no. He was amazed he said no even though he knew she would find things. He explains why he isn’t honest when he knows she is going to find something. His whole life he’s been dishonest because of the shame he’s feeling. It is all about shame as to why it is hard for the addict to come clean all at once.
Debbie: She said there is a very high number of spouses who want to know, no matter how painful it is. It’s easier to move forward if you know everything in the beginning. It is hard to move forward when disclosures keep coming. She relates it to being in the desert. If you have a direction of where to go, it is easy to keep moving forward, but if there is no direction, you keep spinning your wheels and want to give up. She said you can firehose in a healthy way. She talks about using a letter in story format then for the spouse to write a list of questions. The therapist can help decide what would be helpful for her. She also suggests both have therapist support when disclosing. Take some time to prepare so things aren’t forgotten.
Question 4 - As I’ve listened to your stories you have all mentioned how you felt numb to emotion. Steve, I remember when you disclosed to your wife with the therapist and she ran out and you were trying to make yourself feel something and I guess I’m just wondering why you stayed when you were numb? What made any of you decide to stay and fight? I guess the reason I’m asking is because my husband didn’t decide to stay. I don’t know if he was an addict...there were secrets, there were signs and gut feelings that something was off. I found out some things, but I never got angry or threatened divorce. I just begged him to tell me what I needed to change, but he just said whatever “this” was it couldn't be fixed. I listen to your podcast faithfully, it is my favorite one, so much of what you say and what your wives have said resonates with me. I don’t know what my story is, and so it’s been hard to heal when I’m not sure what broke. I guess I am just trying to make sense of it all, and I wonder what I could have done different to make him want to stay and try? What helps someone wake up or come out of that numbness and make them want to keep what they stand to loose? Also what have you guys told your kids? Nobody ever talks about the kids and I would love to hear your experiences. If they are old enough are they told the truth? My oldest daughter never got closure and over the years he’s told her a different narrative; one that involved me not loving him anymore and it breaks my heart. I wonder how much damage has been done and what I should or shouldn’t have said? Thank you so much for this podcast, you have given me and so many others a deeper understanding of the Atonement and of love and courage and triumph and that is the greatest gift ever!
Steve: He said everyone’s story is different. God has a beautiful life for everyone. When talking about an addict he said, “You’re not an all or nothing person”. Meaning, that just because you struggle with an addiction, does not mean that is who you are. You are a son of God who struggles. There is more to a man than just being an addict. He also says that this is not her fault. There is nothing more she could’ve done. This was something he is struggling with, but seems to have so much shame, he cannot bear to tell her.
Debbie: She also mentions there’s nothing she could’ve done to fix it. Love who you are regardless of whether you have been accepted by others or by your husband. Be who you are. When it comes to kids, she said to be honest and answer the questions they ask, but no more.
Question 5 - Two years ago I found out about my husband's addiction. Three disclosures came later with information slowly trickling out including two emotional affairs. Each time he would quickly say a few things and then say, “well what about everything you’ve done? Our marriage discord isn’t about this.” A year ago after a few attempts at recovery my husband left in the dark of the night. I asked him last month if we could try six months of recovery; each working on ourselves and see where that put us. Decide whether we wanted to stay married. He said, “I am happy to help you heal. I’ll come to your therapy appointments. I’ll answer your questions. But I’m doing all I need to do.” I asked him if this meant he was working recovery. He said he didn’t need to be doing anything. He was “all good.” I filed for divorce on Monday. By Friday the nation had shut down. I lost my job. He is still able to work his two jobs full time. He has texted a couple times in the last two weeks. But will not talk to me face to face. Will not come to the door for the kids. Turns away if he sees me in the store. My question is this, “what brings a successful, strong, kind hearted man to live in his car, ignore his family during this time, and pretend his wife doesn’t exist? Is this hate for me?” What are your suggestions for me on how to navigate through this? I am in counseling. Group counseling and individual. I read as many books as I can find. I listen to podcasts including this amazing one! I’m asking your thoughts and suggestions on navigating with him? I’m at a complete loss as to the why of his behavior. My heart aches for him. His children miss him. They don’t understand. We have three adult children. He has pulled away except for the bare minimum for all of them. Please help a wife. I still love him and hoped we could work through this together.
Debbie: She said there are so many layers of trauma. Our heart aches for you. It isn’t about hate for you, it is about hate for himself. And you and the kids are images of all of his failures. You need to have fulfillment regardless of who shows up in your space. She also suggest to go to solhealingforwomen.com to get more details about a weekend intensive for betrayal trauma.
James: He definitely recommends the women go to the Heart of a Woman retreat. There is so much great healing for them and their trauma. He has seen it over and over up there. You can listen to more details about what the HOAW retreat is about here as we did a full episode about how it changed the three women we sponsored to go.
If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ. Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.