Ep 35: Attachment with Troy Love

Attachments – We All Need ‘Em - Troy Love

 “The wounds inflicted are not what trips a person up. It is what a person believes about themselves because of those wounds.” 

Chris and Steve sit down with author and therapist Troy Love. Troy lives in Yuma  Arizona. He is a licensed clinical social worker. Troy has written three books that have been on the Amazon Best Sellers list. Troy has a firm belief that attachment wounds shape a person’s reality about the world and those around them, which most of the time is wrong. In this episode Troy talks about how attachment wounds play a vital role in sexual addiction. He also uses some personal experiences to bring this closer to home. Finally, he wraps up talking about how there is healing and hope from addiction through Christ. 

Troy describes that when a person is in a mother’s womb, they are literally connected after conception and continue to be attached for nine months. The connection between a mom and baby typically continues once a baby is born. Because everyone on earth is imperfect, connections start to break. They heal, but there is still pain around all of those connections because of the wounds a person receives. So why should someone care about this topic if they struggle with sexual addiction? Troy explains about six attachment wounds. They are:

1. Loss 

2. Rejection 

3. Neglect 

4. Abandonment 

5. Betrayal

6. Abuse

When a person has one or all of these wounds in their life, they tend to try to numb those feelings because they hurt so bad. Addiction is one way to numb those wounds. We seek out acceptance and belonging. For example, if a person has an abandonment wound, they will seek out porn to fill that void of being abandoned. Porn will never abandon a person. However, when a person partakes of porn, it hijacks the mind and emotions and people isolate themselves from others making them feel more abandoned and lonelier than before. Troy talks about his childhood and how he received some attachment wounds even though (at the time) he did not realize it.

Troy was adopted at 5 days old and would tell people that he was adopted. That led him to a question as to, “Why was I adopted?” Then in middle school, he was bullied. He perceived himself as being “not enough” and “there is something wrong with me.” These are the two wounds that he describes as his dominant wounds. Then his whole world changed because of a friend.

Someone introduced him to masturbation. He said, “Don’t do it, you won’t be able to stop.” Troy explains, “He was right. It was a medicine. I could not stop.” He felt like he could not talk to his bishop because he was afraid of rejection. A person makes life decisions based on those wounds.  The message that an addict receives from porn is you are special, you are wanted, but it is all counterfeit. It was all due to the fear of abandonment and rejection. After viewing porn and masturbating, a person feels worse about themselves and they cannot tell anyone, because “they would abandon them and reject them.” This drives an addict down the path of isolation. It is all because of this abandonment and rejection wound.

All addicts have to come to the realization that healing from an addiction is not really about the addiction, it is about the 6 attachment wound areas described above. The saying, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire” is true for addiction. The addiction is the smoke, and the true fire is these attachment wounds that an addict has received during their life. These wounds aren’t just inflicted and received as a child, as a person receives these attachment wounds throughout their life.

Troy continues to talk about the attachment spectrum. The following are from that spectrum: avoidant, anxious and secure. When a person is avoidant, they believe that they cannot be themselves around others. So they avoid showing up. When they are anxious, they tend to be very clingy and want to hold onto someone because they think they will be abandoned. Secure is the only attachment that really has a good foundational attachment. 

Since, this is a show about addiction and recovery, the two attachments that are talked about are avoidant and anxious. Both of the attachments make the reality that they are unlovable, unchosen, and people will leave. This is just not true. Those who truly love a person will stick around. There is also one person who will never abandon a person; Jesus Christ.  He will never abandon us. He will always love us, NO MATTER WHAT!!!!! Even if a person decides to continue in their addictions, Christ will always be there standing at the door. Troy talks about how walking through these wounds with his patients with Christ has brought healing and hope to everyone. 

Troy brings up making a list of what the judge (the negative thoughts inside our heads) is telling each one of us. He says this is a great way to break any of the agreements that we may have with ourselves because of “The Judge”. Troy then explains if we were to make a second list next to “The Judge’s” list, that says what God and Jesus Christ think and feel about us, we can start to see all the lies “The Judge” has convinced us are truths.

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 34: Tim and Callie's Story

Steve and Jason sit down with Tim and Callie as they share their story.  This is a story of true redemption, and not just for Tim. Tim and Callie talk about their stories individually and how they met. They then talk about how they both found redemption through the atonement and grace of Jesus Christ. 

Tim grew up in a home that was pretty stable and were good church-going people. Tim talked about how his earliest memories of acting out around the age of ten. He did not realize that these memories would be the first of many that would eat away at him and ensnare him. Tim struggled through many years of addiction without any help. There have been many leaders that have said, “Well, just stop it by singing a song or reading a scripture.” 

This does not work very well. It is like telling a person with a cut, “Just stop worrying about it and it will just go away.” It doesn’t work that way. Addicts need support and Tim just wasn’t getting it. So, he went on a mission thinking it wasn’t a big deal. He found resources at bookstores and other places to look at pictures and images while his mission companions were there for their own interests. 

Callie is Tim’s second wife because he did not get the help he needed due to the lack of resources available about sexual addiction in the 90’s. Tim was divorced from his first wife and then met Callie at church. Callie had never been married and they immediately had a special connection. They eventually got married without Tim letting her know about his secret life.

Callie found out about six years after they were married in 2011. Tim was gaslighting Callie for those six years and she felt like something was off the entire time. She found the proof that things were off because their son opened Tim’s phone one morning while he was sleeping. Callie picked it up to put it back and saw there were sexual conversations with a lady that Tim met during a choir rehearsal. 

Tim and the woman met online because of these rehearsals. Callie asked Tim to delete everything that connected Tim to this woman. So, he deleted the app and the messages from this woman. Callie decided a couple of months after that she would move to Utah and try to work through her betrayal trauma. She blamed herself and Tim let her.

Callie said that Tim should not be a part of the choir because the choir was created to celebrate the dedication of the new LDS temple in Tucson, AZ. Tim was acting as though she did not know what she was talking about and he blamed her for his addiction. She took all of that on and she spiraled being around him. So she decided to go home. She told her family everything.

When she went home Tim decided to get help. He started attending the LDS Church’s version of the 12-Step program called the Addiction Recovery Program (ARP). Before Callie left, Tim talked about how he was going to fight for the kids if they got a divorce. He continued to believe that he was able to go and sing in the dedication of the temple. This actually did not happen, why?

Tim allowed the spirit to start working in him. The night before Tim was going to sing, the spirit told him to call his ecclesiastical leader and confess everything. When that happened, He immediately became teachable and humbled. Tim’s leader took away his temple recommend (temple authorization) and he could not sing at the dedication. He told Callie how sorry he was and that he would do whatever it takes to get over this addiction. 

Callie decided to go back to Tucson and try to work through this with Tim. Tim did not really change all the way and he continued to hide things from Callie. There was a second “D-Day” or Disclosure day. This one really made Tim think and appreciate Callie and her willingness to stay with him. He also realized just how much his Heavenly Father loves him and how much Jesus Christ loves him. 

Tim continues to read several books about how much Christ loves him. There will be a list of them on the Unashamed website for reference. Tim and Callie have realized just what the atonement means to them. They have really felt God’s pure love because of it. Tim said, “You have to let the Savior help you. Callie agreed by saying, “You have to do this daily.”

Callie also talked about how an addict's issues are never the fault of the betrayed. And that the Savior is there for the betrayed as well as the addicted. Callie found comfort with this and decided to stay even though she could have done things on her own. She reiterates that the Savior is there for all.

The UU Crew is so thankful that Tim and Callie had the courage to tell their story. If this story touches your life or you know it will touch someone's, please consider sharing this with them. The UU Crew agrees with Tim and Callie about how they talked about the Savior. He is there for all. No matter what! The Savior is waiting for all to come to Him. He loves You! Let Him.

Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @UnashamedUnafraid.  Thank you for listening.

Ep 33: Chris and Autumn's Story

Steven and James sit down with our co-host and “Hulk of Hope” Chris and his wife Autumn Bennett. Chris talks about how he went from having multiple affairs to now over twelve years of sobriety.  Autumn shares how she went from trying to take her life to trusting Chris again.  They also talk about how they fight for each other's hearts. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them.

Steve starts off explaining that hearing Chris and Autumn’s story is what drove the inspiration of starting Unashamed Unafraid. They were the very first recording for the blog.  Chris then started into his story.

Growing Up

Chris was first introduced to pornography when he was 9 or 10 years old. He and some friends found some magazines. This is when masturbation started for him as well. Then he did that the majority of his life. He never told Autumn or his leaders about it.

Once they got married, Chris was still looking at it when it became available.  Then he stopped for a while.  When he started his mortgage company on his own, that was when his drive to look at porn became almost a daily occurrence for him. Within about 3 months of looking at porn so much, he decided to start an affair...

Autumn then talks about her childhood where she had some physical and emotional abuse by her stepparents.  Autumn met Chris in high school when she was dating one of his friends.  They became best friends and eventually started dating long after high school.  Chris had only disclosed that he had a problem with masturbation in the past, but that was it and he had stopped.  

After having their third child they both noticed they were fighting a lot.  Chris was also doing a lot of gaslighting to make Autumn look bad, especially in front of therapists.  They continued to fight more and more.  Chris was “working” longer hours and she started noticing a lot of changes in him.  He was different.  She would ask about having an affair, but Chris would always say no and that he wasn’t her dad because he had an affair on her mom.  That was a huge fear for Autumn.

Affairs Start

Chris’ first affair lasted for over 20 months.  He also had multiple affairs during this time as well.  He said Autumn knew, but she didn’t know.  She would ask if he was having affairs with certain people, but he would always deny it.  She even asked for his cell phone bill.  Chris then spent eight hours changing the details on the bill so he could prove he wasn’t having an affair.

James asked the question, “What kind of signs were you looking for or stood out that made you think this was going on?”  Autumn replied that the arguing got really bad and there was no more connection with each other.  They were best friends and were close, but that all went away as Chris was disconnected.  She said he became an ass.  So she started asking questions and would notice different behaviors when she would come to his office.  

Getting Caught 

Chris then got caught for one of the affairs.  He really wanted to not tell her about it and asked his Bishop if he could just not tell anyone.  He said he has to tell her because the disciplinary court would be held the following Sunday.  So he disclosed ONLY the affair he was caught for.  He went into the disciplinary court praying that they would excommunicate him from the church. He thought by doing this he could get away with not disclosing the additional affairs and could be rebaptized and forgiven for all his sins.  Then he could never tell Autumn.  This was something that kept Chris in the grips of Satan’s hands.  He was only disfellowshipped.

Chris continued in the affair he was having with the wife of his best friend.  He had started drinking as well.  One day while dropping this woman back off at her office, she received a call from her husband.  He had found out about the affair and had also called and told Autumn.  Chris jumped in his truck and started heading home while talking to Autumn.  By the time he got home he received a call from his mom.  She had beaten Chris to the home.  She walked in and found Autumn passed out on the floor as Autumn tried to take her life.  She immediately called Chris and told him and he called 911.  He then ran in their home and picked Autumn up into his arms as she would go in and out of consciousness.  He started praying and making a deal with God stating he would stop everything he was doing; the women, the porn, the masturbation, everything if He let her live.  Autumn spent three days in the ICU then spent another week at the LDS hospital.  

Chris slowly started coming out with who he had affairs with.  Autumn was right about every person she thought he had an affair with.  Chris still decided to not disclose one of the affairs as he justified that she had a family and if he had said anything, he would need to fire her.  He would die before he would tell anyone about the affair.  Again, this is one more way Satan had a grip on Chris’ life.  

Autumn’s Side of the Story - Attempted Suicide

Steve takes us back to Autumn to hear her side of the story.  She said they were going to counseling and meeting with a Bishop on a regular basis.  She was asking questions about her friend because she noticed things between her and Chris.  Then one day she received a bunch of calls from her friend’s husband and he told her about the affair.  Autumn thought this woman could come in and be a better wife to Chris and a better mom to her kids.  She called her mom and Chris’ mom to ask them to take care of her kids.  She told them she was going to kill herself and hung up.  Then Autumn tried to take her life.  

Once Autumn was in LDS hospital, she had her two Bishops come and gave her some great advice.  They told her they would support any decision she would make.  During this time she had a lot of time to pray and received confirmation she needed to stay with Chris.  She decided to stay and it wasn’t because of the money, the house, the kids.  She stayed because of the intense love she had for him and she had seen glimpses of the man he was supposed to be, and God said she needed to stay. 

Sexual Addiction Recovery Program

Chris and Autumn were then introduced to a sexual addiction program called LifeSTAR.  They didn’t want to go at first, but decided they needed to go.  They thought they would be alone but walked in and there were 36 other people.  This is the first time Chris didn’t feel alone in his addiction.  Chris then talks about the significance about Todd Olson.

During Chris’ second disciplinary course when he was excommunicated, there was a man in there who was asking a lot of great questions.  As they were walking away, Chris was crying to Autumn as that man was walking in front him and said, “There is something about that man Autumn.  I’m not sure what it is, but there is just something special about him.”  Two weeks later Autumn walked into LifeSTAR and this man, Todd Olson, pulled Autumn aside and asked her if she remembered him.  She said no.  Todd then said he was in her husband’s disciplinary court two weeks ago.  She then realized Todd was the man Chris was talking about.  God had placed Todd into their lives for a reason.  God had a plan for them.

Chris’ Change of Heart

Chris and Autumn thought they would be healed and good to go within about three months.  However, even though they were going through their recovery program, Chris was still lying.  Within a year after everything coming out, Chris started multiple affairs again.  He finally got to the point of where he hated the person he had become.  This was because he had gone to see a movie about Joseph Smith.  When he saw Joseph giving blessings to the women and children who were sick in the camp, that was when God reached down and told Chris he needed to change his life.  His family needed him to become a member of the church again and that he needed to disclose everything to Autumn.  After about two months, he finally had the courage to tell Autumn everything from when he was a child all the way through the rest of his life.  Autumn threatened to have Chris take a lie detector test.  This was also a motivating factor in Chris coming out with the details.  He didn’t want to fail it.  

Autumn’s Change of Heart

Autumn had been engaging in codependent behavior, or as she calls it “crazy-making”.  She was trying to control his recovery.  It finally got to a point where she was in her kitchen just pouring her heart out to God and asking him to take away her pain.  Even if it is for only five minutes.  God then told her, “You give me Chris.  You give him to me. You let me take Chris and I will take care of you.  I don’t know what the outcome will be, but I promise you will be okay.”  That is when she realized this was Chris’ addiction.  She finally came to Chris and made him feel safe enough to tell her what he had been doing.  She did this by telling him, “If you need to tell me something, I’ll be okay.  I know there is something you’re not telling me, but I will be okay.  I know there’s more, and if there is and you’re not ready to tell me, then let me know there is and that you’re not ready to tell me yet”.  Chris then told her he had been drinking thinking that would get her off his back.  She said that wasn’t it and there is more.  Chris agreed and then told her he has more to tell her but wasn’t ready and he would tell her at their counseling appointment on Tuesday.  This was a Friday night.

Chris disclosed everything at their appointment and Autumn left for a week to make some decisions.  This was the third time for disclosure.  She did a lot of praying that week and knew she would be okay.  She came home and told Chris that she couldn’t stay married to someone who wasn’t in recovery.  Like real, legit, recovery.  

Keys for Recovery

Chris started checking in with Autumn every night in four areas: physically, emotionally, spiritually, and sexually.  He was having slips with masturbation or lusting over women almost every day and telling her about it, but he was finally learning how to be honest.  They also created a 24-hour rule where if Chris had a slip, he had 24 hours to tell her.  The longest he made it was six hours because he didn’t want to beat himself up or freak out for the next 24 hours.  So he might as well tell her.  He then started reaching out to God, to men in recovery, and saying his prayers.  As he prayed, he was asking God how he can love his wife again.  How he could see her in a different light.  How he could see those things he fell in love with about her.  This is really when his recovery stepped up.  

Full disclosure was a huge patriot in his recovery.  Autumn said that once he disclosed everything, she knew he was finally being honest.  She said she could literally see the weight on his shoulders come off.  She watched him change right in front of her eyes.  She said she would take the worst truth over the littlest lie.  Chris also started really listening to Autumn and repeating and validating her feelings.  Chris told her she has full access to his computers and phone at any time and stopped being defensive.  

Autumn talks about a situation where Chris went downtown with some of his friends for General Conference.  After, they went to the City Creek Mall across the street for dinner.  One of the men Chris was with told Autumn that there was an absolutely beautiful woman who walked by, but Chris just put his head down and then continued talking after she went by.  Chris was finally living how he should be and doing it even when he wasn’t with Autumn. 

A Warrior Heart Boot Camp

In 2009 Chris went to the first Warrior Heart Boot Camp in Utah.  He literally had only $1 in his pocket.  His buddy Jim paid for Chris to attend.  That weekend changed both his and Jim’s lives forever.  It was something that changed the trajectory of Chris’ life.  Chris found how to create intimacy with God.  Chris was also able to deal with the feelings from when his father took his life when Chris was 17.  God showed Chris all the tender mercies and love notes he sends him.  Chris then decided it was a message he needed to be a part of.  He started helping with the marketing, then became the Prayer Team Lead, then became part of the Speaking Team, and is now also part of the Executive Team.

Autumn talked about how we need to go to God for our validation. God loves us for who we are.  We are already paid for.  We don’t have to hustle for Him.  We don’t need to hustle for His love.  He loves us for who we are right now for who you are.  No matter what you’ve done, where you’ve been, His love is not too far to reach you.  

Chris was rebaptized in 2010.  He now has over 12 years of sobriety from women and pornography and over 10 years of sobriety from masturbation.  Chris also started praying in the shower.  This has been huge for his recovery.  He always leaves the door open so Autumn can always see into the shower.  Then numerous times as temptations come, he knew that was his time to spend with God so he wouldn’t slip with masturbation.  

Final Words

Chris strongly suggests not doing multiple disclosures like he did.  Even if it is hard, it is best to get with a therapist and properly disclose with your spouse.  They also suggest not making a big decision in the relationship (like divorce) for at least a year. Chris and Autumn truly fight for each others’ hearts.  They truly love each other, and you can see that when you meet them.  

If you would like Chris and Autumn come speak to your congregation, you can reach Chris at chris@unashamedunafraid.com.  

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. We here at Unashamed Unafraid are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Christ Jesus; for that is such an important part of true and everlasting recovery from any addiction and trauma that we have all experienced.  Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid. Donate to help others in recovery at Here (UnashamedUnafraid.com/donate). Or reach out to a member of our team Here (hyperlink to team page)

Bonus: Q & A with Chris & Autumn and Sway & Rachel

This is a Bonus Episode for all of our listeners. Chris, Autumn, Sway and Rachel sat down on a live Zoom call and answered questions about safety, boundaries, recovery for addicts with only a few months of sobriety at a time, and many more. The panel answered about five times as many questions as usual in a normal Q&A episode. So there's a ton of great information here. They got real and honest about their own experiences and it was incredible hearing the spouse's perspective with the answers. 

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Remember to submit your anonymous questions online at UnashamedUnafraid.com so that others can find answers as well. 

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 32: Anonymous Q&A with Debbie Reid

Q&A with Debbie Reid

Steve and James sit down with Debbie Reid from LifeStar Salt Lake.  She is trained in trauma in  somatic experiencing and psychodrama therapy and runs LifeStar intensives in Salt Lake City and trauma groups in Tennessee. They answer five questions submitted by our listeners.  

Question 1 - My husband recently disclosed to me his multiple affairs and other online relationships. We are both working towards healing and recovery. He often comments that when he goes to church nobody else has "sins" as serious as his, so I really appreciate this open dialogue that others are willing to share about their own path back to healing and Christ. I realize that every recovery story is different, I'm just waiting to see how ours unfolds. I really appreciate hearing the story from the "addict’s" perspective, but I wondered if it was possible to hear from the wife's perspective too. I'm especially drawn to the most recent podcast with Matt's Recovery story. I would like to know a little about her own recovery and how she saw Matt's recovery from her perspective? Thanks!

Debbie: It seems like there is a longing for connection from the listener and is being drawn out of isolation. It reminds her of the story in the New Testament about where they are throwing stones at the adulter.  This was a turning point in James’ recovery.  She also talks about using affirmations because they are truth.

James: This is one of his favorite stories because he realized “God didn’t condemn me, so I don’t need to condemn me.” 

Steve: You’re not alone in your church. Many others are dealing with the same thing.  Rise Up Restored is a great podcast for this listener to hear more stories about betrayal trauma and how to heal from it.

Question 2 - I am trying to think how to word this question, I struggle with showing empathy and compassion towards others. I want to show this to those I love especially towards my wife who I have hurt the most. When situations arise when I know I should show empathy I don’t, my first reaction and thought is that I just don’t care. It seems I can show some empathy and compassion towards others but I really struggle doing this with my wife, instead I go to anger and frustration and just don’t know what to do. Why is it so hard to show empathy and compassion to my wife?

Steve: This is an incredibly honest question. How much empathy and compassion does he have for himself? It is hard to have and create empathy for someone when you don’t have it for yourself.  LaCrae said in his lyrics “ If you live by their acceptance, you’ll die by their rejection”. He also went on to say that you can’t give something you don’t have. Self-love. How can you show up for your wife if you can’t show up for yourself?  So show empathy for yourself, which will allow you to show empathy for your wife. 

Debbie:  Sometimes we go back into addictive thoughts and behaviors like turning the tables, blame, anger, or whatever I need to do to push people away.  We think it is easier to do this or is just the way we think.  We are seeking to get validation from others instead of looking to our Higher Power for validation. When we do this, these other outside sources will fail. We need to connect to our Higher Power through prayer or music and then sit with it. Just let our body and soul connect and feel that validation from God. 

Question 3 - Hello! I recently came across your podcast and am truly grateful for all the work you do into putting this together for those of us that are hurting. I am a wife of a recovering addict, and after listening to episode 17, Therons recovery story, A story of healing and redemption - October 25, 2019. I had to chime in. Over the past 20 years my husband and I have walked through some serious valleys and when I heard the term "firehosing" and the conversation around it, I thought I would share my perspective. Beginning roughly 2 months ago, we went through another round of getting busted/confession. Except this time, the pieces came in parts, every 2 weeks for a 6 week period. So when I first discovered (on our computer), there was a confession. Then for me began the processing/healing part... 2 weeks later I learned more (on his computer) so again, process/heal, 2 weeks later even more (via his cell phone private browser). Again, process/heal... When my world is falling apart and it feels like I can't even breathe, I would so much prefer all the information at once, slowly, humbly, as loving as possible, over being shattered and what feels like being gut-punched repeatedly over a 6 week period. It may be physically exhausting and painful and I agree it’s not an easy task for the offender, but is the reason for giving limited information just to stay out of the dog house for a long time? My husband's response to my question was "because I didn't want to hurt you" Really!?!? So here's my question, what's so wrong with firehosing? Because for the life of me, even with the understanding of how individualistic we all are, I just can't wrap my head around it. 

Steve: He relates this experience as when Kayla asked him directly if she would find anything and he said no.  He was amazed he said no even though he knew she would find things.  He explains why he isn’t honest when he knows she is going to find something. His whole life he’s been dishonest because of the shame he’s feeling.  It is all about shame as to why it is hard for the addict to come clean all at once.  

Debbie: She said there is a very high number of spouses who want to know, no matter how painful it is. It’s easier to move forward if you know everything in the beginning.  It is hard to move forward when disclosures keep coming. She relates it to being in the desert.  If you have a direction of where to go, it is easy to keep moving forward, but if there is no direction, you keep spinning your wheels and want to give up. She said you can firehose in a healthy way. She talks about using a letter in story format then for the spouse to write a list of questions. The therapist can help decide what would be helpful for her. She also suggests both have therapist support when disclosing. Take some time to prepare so things aren’t forgotten. 

Question 4 - As I’ve listened to your stories you have all mentioned how you felt numb to emotion. Steve, I remember when you disclosed to your wife with the therapist and she ran out and you were trying to make yourself feel something and I guess I’m just wondering why you stayed when you were numb? What made any of you decide to stay and fight? I guess the reason I’m asking is because my husband didn’t decide to stay. I don’t know if he was an addict...there were secrets, there were signs and gut feelings that something was off. I found out some things, but I never got angry or threatened divorce. I just begged him to tell me what I needed to change, but he just said whatever “this” was it couldn't be fixed. I listen to your podcast faithfully, it is my favorite one, so much of what you say and what your wives have said resonates with me. I don’t know what my story is, and so it’s been hard to heal when I’m not sure what broke. I guess I am just trying to make sense of it all, and I wonder what I could have done different to make him want to stay and try? What helps someone wake up or come out of that numbness and make them want to keep what they stand to loose? Also what have you guys told your kids? Nobody ever talks about the kids and I would love to hear your experiences. If they are old enough are they told the truth? My oldest daughter never got closure and over the years he’s told her a different narrative; one that involved me not loving him anymore and it breaks my heart.  I wonder how much damage has been done and what I should or shouldn’t have said? Thank you so much for this podcast, you have given me and so many others a deeper understanding of the Atonement and of love and courage and triumph and that is the greatest gift ever! 

Steve: He said everyone’s story is different. God has a beautiful life for everyone. When talking about an addict he said, “You’re not an all or nothing person”.  Meaning, that just because you struggle with an addiction, does not mean that is who you are.  You are a son of God who struggles.  There is more to a man than just being an addict. He also says that this is not her fault. There is nothing more she could’ve done.  This was something he is struggling with, but seems to have so much shame, he cannot bear to tell her.

Debbie: She also mentions there’s nothing she could’ve done to fix it. Love who you are regardless of whether you have been accepted by others or by your husband. Be who you are. When it comes to kids, she said to be honest and answer the questions they ask, but no more.   

Question 5 - Two years ago I found out about my husband's addiction. Three disclosures came later with information slowly trickling out including two emotional affairs. Each time he would quickly say a few things and then say, “well what about everything you’ve done? Our marriage discord isn’t about this.” A year ago after a few attempts at recovery my husband left in the dark of the night. I asked him last month if we could try six months of recovery; each working on ourselves and see where that put us. Decide whether we wanted to stay married. He said, “I am happy to help you heal. I’ll come to your therapy appointments. I’ll answer your questions. But I’m doing all I need to do.” I asked him if this meant he was working recovery. He said he didn’t need to be doing anything. He was “all good.” I filed for divorce on Monday. By Friday the nation had shut down. I lost my job. He is still able to work his two jobs full time. He has texted a couple times in the last two weeks. But will not talk to me face to face. Will not come to the door for the kids. Turns away if he sees me in the store. My question is this, “what brings a successful, strong, kind hearted man to live in his car, ignore his family during this time, and pretend his wife doesn’t exist? Is this hate for me?” What are your suggestions for me on how to navigate through this? I am in counseling. Group counseling and individual. I read as many books as I can find. I listen to podcasts including this amazing one! I’m asking your thoughts and suggestions on navigating with him? I’m at a complete loss as to the why of his behavior. My heart aches for him. His children miss him. They don’t understand. We have three adult children. He has pulled away except for the bare minimum for all of them. Please help a wife. I still love him and hoped we could work through this together. 

Debbie: She said there are so many layers of trauma. Our heart aches for you. It isn’t about hate for you, it is about hate for himself. And you and the kids are images of all of his failures. You need to have fulfillment regardless of who shows up in your space. She also suggest to go to solhealingforwomen.com to get more details about a weekend  intensive for betrayal trauma. 

James: He definitely recommends the women go to the Heart of a Woman retreat. There is so much great healing for them and their trauma. He has seen it over and over up there.  You can listen to more details about what the HOAW retreat is about here as we did a full episode about how it changed the three women we sponsored to go.  

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 31: Joe and Amy's Story

 Joe and Amy Pierson: Perspective Shift

Joe and Amy Pierson are amazing people. Chris and Steve had the privilege to talk with them about their story. They also talk very candidly about what it took to help them through Joe’s addiction. Joe talks about his experience of surrendering to Heavenly Father. Amy talks about her experience of surrendering her trauma and Joe to Him as well. Sit back and enjoy this amazing adventure of war and redemption.

Joe grew up in a home that was very shame based about sex and anything related to it. They could not even say the word pregnant. They had to say that someone was “expecting”. Joe remembers when he was on a business trip with his family where his mom and dad went out for a work dinner. Joe was the oldest on the trip. He has two older brothers who didn’t go on the trip. So he was left to be in charge of his younger siblings. While he was alone, he watched a movie on cable that showed people having sex. Joe did not know what to do with it. Joe ended up ejaculating and felt so ashamed of himself. He did not say anything to his parents. He kept it to himself and began his journey of trying to deal with his addiction on his own. 

While he was a teenager, he was given the book, “Miracle of Forgiveness” by Spencer W. Kimball. This book is no longer recommended by the LDS church .  It created a lot of shame and toxic guilt for those who read it and is no longer published. When Joe’s mom saw him with the book, she shamed Joe which drove him further into his addiction.

Joe continued to isolate himself away from those closest to him. He was sober from masturbation for over six months before his mission. Joe served an honorable mission even though during his last few weeks of the mission he masturbated in the shower. He decided that his mission was a failure because of this action. That was so far from the truth but because of the shame and guilt he received from himself and others around him, he suffered. Joe’s experience up to this point was completely opposite for his wife Amy.

Amy grew up in a family where sex was openly talked about. She remembers her mom yelling at her brothers if they spent too much time in the shower. She would yell, “QUIT MASTURBATING AND GET OUT OF THE SHOWER!” So naturally, Amy and her sisters would yell the same thing when they needed to get into the bathroom. Amy’s mom went as far as having the “M-Talk” with her brothers’ friends. Amy brought that same openness into a relationship with Joe.

Before Joe’s mission, Amy and him started dating, but only as friends. Amy had gone farther than kissing and hugging with previous boyfriends; however, never had sex before marrying Joe. She just wanted to date as friends especially because Joe was going on a mission soon and she did not want to be the reason he did not go. Amy dated even though she “technically” waited for Joe. Joe proposed to her within 24 hours of being home from his mission.

Joe and Amy were married nine weeks after he returned home. Joe assumed, like every other addict, the problem would go away because he could be fulfilled by Amy. Then, he found the internet. He knows that if he had access to pornography before the internet, he would have been addicted to it. He remembers using his sisters’ teen magazines to masturbate to. Amy started to sense Joe pulling away from her emotionally because he was looking at porn.

Joe and Amy are best friends and so Amy could just feel something was off. So, about 6 years after they were married, Amy was walking down the street and got this impression in her head, “Joe is looking at porn.” Amy immediately went home and opened the office door and said to Joe, “I know you’re looking at porn, you need to make an appointment with the bishop and you need to take care of it.” Joe was floored. He thought to himself, “How did she know?”

He scheduled an appointment with the bishop and met with him a couple of times. Joe thought he was fixed. Little did he know that he would spend the next two and a half decades battling this. In the height of his addiction, he would spend nights at the office and not come home. Amy was suffering but kept her composure and told him that she would never leave him. Joe continued to struggle and believed that he had  to earn the love of God. Amy finally broke after years and years of suffering in silence.

Amy had enough and told him that she was at the end of her rope. At the therapist’s office she said, “If Joe was not going to change, she could not stay with him.” She had finally let him go. She was making changes in her life and he was stagnant. When Amy first started her recovery journey, her therapist said to her that letting Joe go would be the hardest thing she would ever have to do. Amy confirmed that by stating, “It was like going through fire. But once I let him go, there was freedom.” Joe decided that he needed to do something different. Because Amy was leaving him in the dust.

Joe started to throw his recovery into high gear and get serious about his recovery. He stumbled across a video called, “The Shift” by Wayne Dyer. He then was hooked on Wayne Dyer books. He got another book from him and listened to it while he was pruning roses. Joe never was the gardener. Joe spent several weeks listening to the book, “Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life.” By Wayne Dyer. He connected with God in the most beautiful way. Joe finally opened his heart to God. Joe felt His love so profoundly, so completely, where in that moment God told him that He accepted Joe completely and wholly. And three plus decades of shame and guilt melted away from him.

Joe knew that there was nothing that he could do to take away the love that Heavenly Father felt for Joe. Joe was not the same person after that. It changed his concept of God. Joe knew that God was not there to judge him. He was there with love, compassion, kindness and forgiveness. He did not know what to do with that. Joe’s faith was shaken. When the shame washed away, so did the compulsion of the addiction. Joe was changed. 

Joe was hungry for more and he stumbled across Eckhart Tolle. He just knew God loved him unconditionally. Joe also read the book, “The Untethered Soul”. The last chapter asks the question, “What if God was not judgment? What if He was Love? What if we stayed in that moment?” Joe was on fire. Amy noticed that change and his fire. Amy, also noticed that her trauma was coming out with a vengeance! 

Amy remembers a time when she was sobbing uncontrollably in the closet and could not stop. Joe was beside himself because he couldn’t help her. He just continued to reassure her that he can handle it. And he did. Amy eventually began trusting Joe that he had changed. She was able to get help through therapy. Joe and Amy are constantly learning more and more about who God really is. They have the following motto for their family. “Your Worth Is Set. Everything Else is Just an Experience.”  

They end the podcast with the song, “No Longer Slaves” by Bethel Music. This emulates exactly what Joe and Amy feel about who God is and what he means to them. If this story resonates with you please feel free to share it with those who you think could benefit from it. We here at Unashamed Unafraid are extremely grateful for people like Joe and Amy Pierson for sharing their story with us. They are truly Outsiders! We love them and all of those who have supported this effort.

Ep 30: Jason's Story

Jason: Darth Vader of Audio

Our own Darth Vader of Audio, Jason, sits down with Steve and James to talk about his pornography addiction and how he found recovery through honesty and vulnerability. Jason grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints with a family that loved him. He talks about how his addiction affected his relationships with his wife, friends, and God. Through the grace of God, honesty, therapy, and vulnerability, Jason was rescued by our relentless God and has experienced profound changes in his life because of our Savior. If this story touches your life or you know it will touch someone's life, please consider sharing this with them.

Jason grew up in a loving home. He didn’t have many good friends as a young kid. He experienced some sexual trauma at a young age through hazing by some peers. Jason was introduced to pornography at age 9 and by age 15 he was seeking it out. He decided It wasn’t a big problem for him and he decided that he wanted to serve as a missionary for his church. While on his mission, Jason had a few issues with masturbation and worked through it with his mission president.

After returning home, Jason married his wife Katie, whom he had met in High School. He didn’t tell her about his addiction, and they went on to get married. He told her about it afterward, but described it as a problem that was in the past. A few months into their marriage, Katie found out that Jason had still been looking at pornography so they started therapy. 

Jason describes a relationship with God that is unwavering. He says he never doubted God’s love for him, even when he was struggling with his addiction. After a few years, Jason stopped going to therapy because he was comfortable with his situation. Jason fell back into his addiction and for 5 years he was secretly viewing pornography. Eventually, Jason started drinking and was viewing pornography daily. He was slowly losing his relationship with God, his wife, and his friends, then went into a faith crisis.

At the point he had decided to walk away from his faith, Jason describes how God showed up for him in a personal way. Jason chose to embrace honesty and pursue true recovery. Recognizing that he couldn’t win this fight on his own, Jason learned to truly surrender. He started to recognize that only God could take this burden from him. He learned to be humble, honest, let go of his self-will, to follow the 12 step program, and stop trying to control outcomes. 

Jason shares his keys to recovery. Things such as books like Fathered by God, podcasts like UnashamedUnafraid, brotherhood, connection, vulnerability, and 12 step meetings. His relationship with God has been deepened and strengthened. He now is filled with peace, love, and joy. 

The UU Crew is so thankful that Jason has entered their fellowship. If this story touches your life or you know it will touch someone's life, please consider sharing this with them.  Please follow us on Instagram and Facebook at @UnashamedUnafraid and please rate us on iTunes.

Ep 29: Anonymous Q&A with Autumn

Q&A - Answers from Autumn and the UU Crew

The UU Crew sits down with Autumn (Chris’ wife) and answers three questions from anonymous sources. The first question is extremely difficult to get through, so be careful if listening around impressionable little minds. It is a very difficult question. The others are not as heavy.

Question 1 asks if her ex-boyfriend may have raped her. She mentioned that he would ask her to have sex with her and if she said no that he would kill himself, completely manipulating the situation. She did not want to be “responsible” for his death so she agreed and he would then be extremely aggressive and hurt her badly. This left her bruised and hurt, not only physically but emotionally as well. This is called Gaslighting! And is called RAPE!!!! There is so much more that went on in this relationship. The good news for her is there are resources and help that she can receive from this trauma. Just know if this is happening to you, there is help available. 

Autumn goes on and reads what rape and assault are. This is such a sensitive subject to talk about. She talks about the help and the resources available for victims. The first one is to go and talk to someone who may not know the person that is abusing the victim, but can be trusted. The second is to go and talk with a victim advocate (probably with that trusted friend by the victim’s side) so that the victim can feel the support needed from a trusted friend. The third resource is to go and file a police report (if the victim feels comfortable with that) and have the victim advocate and the friend be a part of the journey. 

There really has to be a connection with trusted individuals in this journey. And knowing that a person is not alone in this scary time is very important. If the victim is in Utah, the best online resource is TheRapeRecoveryCenter.org. The hotline to call is: (801) 467-7273. However, this website can direct the victim to the help center nearest to them. 

The nationwide organization is: RAINN 800.656.HOPE (4673), the national sexual assault telephone hotline. Victims can also go online and chat with someone on rainn.org. These resources can be a big help for victims. 

Question 2 also deals with getting help. This is more for the addict versus the betrayed. The questioner asks about in-patient options and all options for addicts to obtain the help that they need to get out of the addiction cycle. Steve mentions three inpatient resources to get the help addicts and loved ones of addicts can receive. The first one is Paradise Creek in Logan, Utah. The second place is called Desert Solace; which is located in St. George, Utah.  The third option is The Meadows as probably the best inpatient option. 

There are several out-patient options too that we discuss. One option is LifeStar Network which is in Salt Lake City, Utah. This one is six days a week and the addict is there from 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. LifeStar could be a great option because there have been a lot of people who have gone through Intensive Outpatient (IOP) therapy who have had a lot of success with it. There are also self-driven therapy groups. None of the UU crew have gone through the self-directed version of therapy though. However, any one of these could be the answer that God is telling the addict to use. It just depends on the addict and their commitment to recovery that will assist in this process.

SAnon and SA Lifeline are two great resources for the betrayed. This is a great way for the betrayed to get help. They will be able to work through their trauma experience. There is an example that the UU Crew talks about that the husband and wife going through the IOP at LifeStar. 

Question 3 asks about how to speak with God and how to receive His love. This question is basically the “Wild At Heart” (Warrior Heart Boot Camp, in Utah) [episode 15]. He asks about how God’s children can see His “Love Notes”. Love notes are the way that Heavenly Father talks to His children’s hearts. Examples of these love notes are: sunsets, northern lights, animals, birds, rocks shaped like hearts, and specific ways that will touch each individual heart. 

These notes are individualistic. This is the best way for Heavenly Father to show His children He is there. He wants to speak to His children, but His children are the ones who must invite Him in. He is waiting for you to invite Him into your heart.  Bottom line is Heavenly Father will show up if there is an invite. He will show up in ways that can be so personal for the individual that the reaction is just to cry. All of His children are longing to be seen. He wants to show up for them too. 

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At Unashamed Unafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 28: Steve and Kayla: Love Through It All

Our Rapper host’s story is similar to a lot of men who struggle with sexual addiction in that the start of his addiction happened long before he was a full-grown adult. At age 11 extensive sexual abuse was discovered within his family and extended family. For Steven, it was like he grew up in a moment and was left very alone. People in his life who should have been there for him just couldn't be because they couldn't even be there for themselves.  He remembers at about age twelve sitting in a therapist's office and having her confirm basically that he was alone (emotionally). He decided that since no one was ever going to be there for him, he wasn't ever going to need anyone. Steven got some help from the adversary on that one (read Wild at Heart). He was 12 when he first remembers seeing pornography and masturbating. His first encounter was just stumbling across it innocently on the Internet. 

As he continued to grow up, pornography and masturbation became more consistent, along with other sexual acting out behaviors.  He then started to develop a dual life...big time. He was raised as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and despite his family's struggles they were still relatively active in the church and Steven knew that his siblings and parents believed in Christ for real. As a kid, he did gain a testimony of Christ and wanted to serve an LDS two-year mission. He went to his bishop (congregation leader/pastor) and confessed about 3/4 of his sexual behavior, leaving out that he had sex multiple times in high school.

After serving a mission in Baltimore, Maryland Steven was on fire with God's love and was committed to not falling back into his addiction. However, his sobriety lasted about three months. He had started viewing pornography consistently and finally went to his bishop to talk.  He didn't like his addiction, but he wasn't ready to change, so everything formed into a justification for his denial. The thing he learned about denial is that it is not only about lying to everyone else, but it’s also about lying to yourself. He told himself, "I don't need to tell anyone or bring this up anymore. God knows I am working on it (which he wasn't) so I can keep this to myself (advice of the adversary) and keep 'working on it' (aka quit every night before he goes to bed)".  He continued to have success on the exterior parts of his life and used that success to re-enforce his denial and justification. That was the basis for his denial of his dual life and his addiction took off.

Kayla grew up following Christ. She tried really hard to do what was right and she had a mom and dad who were very involved in her life. She worked really hard and was diligent about living a life without sin or making big mistakes. Kayla and Steven met when he was freestyle rapping at the gateway in 2010 and were married in September of 2011. Although a couple of things came to Kayla’s attention while dating, Steven gaslighted and minimized so that when they got married Kayla had no idea about the addiction.   

What was once a gap between the two versions of Steven in his dual life was quickly becoming a huge chasm.  On the surface, he was working in the temple (a very sacred place of worship), getting married, serving in a bishopric (congregational leadership), going to college, and getting into his career. On the inside, he was not ever getting real with God about his issues, was in total denial, was seeing his addiction escalating completely unchecked, and was totally destroying himself (lots of shame). This led him to the height of his addiction. At that time he was masturbating and viewing pornography daily and starting to see prostitutes, which continued for several years. He facilitated it all by stealing money from a business he managed for family. This pattern started not long after his mission and continued until April 2014. All the time Kayla had no idea about his dual life.

In April 2014 Kayla went out of town for about a week, so Steven was left home alone. He used this time to binge in his addiction. In this binge weekend, he had no plans and had nowhere to be. It was really the first time he had to just sit with himself in his addiction. He describes that there was a lot of grace from God at this moment because he was able to see past some of the numbness and denial and ask himself, "Why I am doing what I'm doing when I know what I know"?  He knew God loved him. He had seen God's work in lots of other people’s lives and had witnessed those experiences. He didn't know if he'd get divorced, excommunicated from the church, etc., but he knew he couldn't keep going on like this. So he jumped. 

When Kayla came home he picked her up at the airport and went straight to a therapist’s office and he commenced telling her everything. Needless to say, it didn’t go well at all. Kayla had no idea and was truly blindsided. Steven said, “I don't think I will ever really understand how horrible that experience was for her.” Although Kayla had all of the emotions that come with the devastation of experiencing betrayal trauma she also had some powerful experiences with God that made her believe there was meaning and purpose for staying with Steven.

Steven’s first stop was the LifeStar IOP (Intensive Outpatient Program) in May 2014, then the LifeStar 3-Phase program with individual therapy and couples therapy. He went through formal church discipline and was disfellowshipped. Over time, staying honest has been one of the hardest parts of recovery for Steven. He came back into full fellowship in the church in September 2015 (16 months). In December of 2016, he had an acting out experience he chose to not be honest about. He chose to justify that he could keep that one to himself and still work recovery. Steven said, “Yup, just as I’m sure you’re thinking right now, that does not work.” He continued to have sporadic slips with masturbation and pornography, which sometimes he would disclose and sometimes not. In the spring of 2018, he had two more acting out experiences. Still doing a lot of recovery work, albeit on his dual life terms, God continued to prompt him to get 100% honest and back in full recovery. With God’s help in August of 2018, he came forward and was again 100% honest. In December of 2018, he was excommunicated from the LDS church.  

Steven and Kayla’s relationship has been like watching the grass grow.  There haven't been these moments where it was like a "magic wand" and their relationship just got so much better.  But over time they have seen change, growth, regaining of trust and are happier. The lack of honesty has been, by far the hardest thing for Kayla. However, despite the ups and downs, she has felt like Steven is changing and she is too. In January of 2019, Steven’s recovery hit its low point when he acted out again with another woman. This took him beyond a place where he could justify, deny, or carry himself out of. “That is the darkest I have ever seen him,” Kayla shared. This forced Steven and Kayla to choose a life of surrender with God or break. Both of them describe how recovery has been so different since that time and how they have continued to find healing and recovery. We often end podcasts by asking the couple who share what they would tell those struggling out there. From our My Story page here is what Steven would say:

I am broken and believe I will only fully heal by turning my heart to God. Despite my struggles, I am still unashamed as ever and working hard on being unafraid to come unto Christ for myself. I intentionally wanted to share my story not being "perfect" or 100% recovered because I'm unashamed.  I know I will find 100% sobriety sooner rather than later. I don’t believe I will have to struggle my whole life. Kayla believes this too. Even though I have continued to give her every reason not to, she does. This has truly been one of the greatest graces of my life. I am so ashamed about how much pain I have caused her and hope for her healing more than my own. I will continually have stories of men on the podcast from months of sobriety not looking back, to men who have five-plus years of sobriety and can't believe they were ever addicted.  I know God loves me and He loves you. My hope is that by sharing my story in a vulnerable, open way, you can have the courage to share your story, reach out, get help, and get loved. If you are struggling with addiction I want you to know you don't have to! You are not alone! The adversary wants you to think that if you come out of your addiction, or really try and tackle it, that everyone will hate you, that your wife will leave you, that your kids will hate you, and that God will slam the door on you. Don't believe it!  Reach out and see! 

"I said there's plenty people like me, all outsiders like me, and all unashamed and all unafraid to live out what they supposed to be "outsiders - Lecrae 

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ... I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU." John 14: 1,18

"What must the sheep do to qualify for this divine help? Does the sheep need to know how to use a complicated sextant to calculate its coordinates? Does it need to be able to use a GPS to define its position? Does it have to have the expertise to create an app that will call for help? Does the sheep need endorsements by a sponsor before the Good Shepherd will come to the rescue? No. Certainly not! The sheep is worthy of divine rescue simply because it is loved by the Good Shepherd."  He Will Place You on His Shoulders and Carry You Home - Dieter F. Uchtdorf

If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. We here at Unashamed Unafraid are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Christ Jesus; for that is such an important part of true and everlasting recovery from any addiction and trauma that we have all experienced.  Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid. Donate to help others in recovery at Here. Or reach out to a member of our team Here.

Ep 26: Hope And Healing Support with Michelle

Steve, James and Kayla sit down with the owner/administrator of the website hopeandhealingsupport.com. While running a website to bring people to Christ, she found that her website was being inundated with questions about addiction and recovery for the betrayed. So she started the website hopeandhealingsupport.com. Her website has information for women affected by the sexual addiction of a loved one.  

Michelle began by discussing what hopeandhealingsupport.com is all about. She talked about how much her eyes opened to the need of help with betrayal trauma. She mentioned the hope that the betrayed and addicted feel after going to the website forum. The entire reason why Michelle decided to start this website was to bring people together and provide hope during a dark time in people’s lives. Steve and Kayla also expressed the positivity of what the website was able to do for them during the first stages of their recovery. 

Kayla mentioned that all of these types of resources assisted her in understanding how to go through this recovery for her and what things she changed because of available resources like Hope and Healing. Kayla said that she learned about surrendering her control of Steve and his addiction over to God. She also understands that this is Steve’s choice whether he surrenders to God or not. That gives Kayla a lot of peace that she can control what she decides and leave the rest to God. Kayla also mentioned she cannot be the fixer of his problems. She realized that God is the only one who can take it from Steve. This was not very surprising to Michelle.

Michelle talked about how she sees patterns of how the betrayed begin their journey and those who truly want to recover from the trauma will follow it. She also realized that the gospel is much deeper than just checking boxes. She has been able to see a deeper part of God’s plan for agency because of seeing the betrayed surrender. This was one of the key principles that women have to understand before they can truly recover.

Michelle also describes that women must get out of isolation quickly. The resources available can assist the women in healing more quickly. However, it can be difficult to find a community of healing; especially, when women are too embarrassed to talk about it openly. But, there are those resources. There are online meetings, phone meetings, and meetings in different churches. These are only a few select number of resources.

Another resource for women is therapy. Most loved ones will need therapy when dealing with betrayal trauma. Women need to understand self-awareness about their trauma. Women also need to reconnect into their own self-care with other women. They also must reconnect to their spiritual self-care. They cannot go into the “try-harder” gospel. Isolation is not the solution. Trauma patients need to adjust the way they do things to recover from the trauma. Which brought up a question about “God trauma”.

Kayla said that God trauma has been pretty big for her because it was so clear that she was supposed to marry Steven. She was shattered when she found out about Steve's addiction. She wanted to know why she felt so sure that God wanted to marry Steven even though he was so broken. 

Kayla understands now that God gave her Steve because she needed to see that despite Steve’s brokenness, she found the gratitude in how good a man Steven is. Steve is one of the good ones because he is trying to recover. She also sees that this trial came to pass. She said that her marriage is better than it could have been, had they not gone through this. While some  betrayed get to a place of gratitude for their trials, there are still those who decide to remain in anger and shame.

The question was asked about why there is still so much anger and shame around addiction and recovery. Michelle mentioned there will always be anger and shaming websites because when those who have been betrayed first reach out, they want to fix it and so they try to fix the outer problem first. When they are ready to fix the inner problems, that is when they turn away from the anger and start to heal through love and connection. It was an amazing opportunity to meet with Michelle and see just how much she believes that there truly is hope during the healing process.

We greatly appreciate Michelle sharing her heart with us. If these stories resonate with you, or you know someone who might benefit from them, please feel free to share the link to the episode with them. At UnashamedUnafraid we are here to spread the words of hope and healing through Jesus Christ.  Please subscribe and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @UnashamedUnafraid. 

Ep 25: Anonymous Q&A with Dr. Skinner - Recovery is Possible Through Connection

Jason and Steve sit down and talk with Dr. Skinner about anonymous questions that UnashamedUnafraid (UU) have received. He talks to them about how there is recovery and a saving grace from any type of addiction. The addict must give up something to get their life back. It also involves true connection to others. At UU, we believe anyone can recover through our Savior Jesus Christ and his infinite Atonement.

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Jason and Steve sit down and talk with Dr. Skinner about anonymous questions that UnashamedUnafraid (UU) have received. He talks to them about how there is recovery and a saving grace from any type of addiction. The addict must give up something to get their life back. It also involves true connection to others. At UU, we believe anyone can recover through our Savior Jesus Christ and his infinite Atonement.

Who is Dr. Skinner? He is the director of Ado Recovery. They have a number of clinics around the United States and Canada. He started his own clinic and realized after a speaking engagement at BYU that there was a major issue with sex and pornography addiction. After several years of assisting in the recovery of addicts and betrayed spouses, Dr. Skinner was asked to head up Ado Recovery. They have grown from just four offices to over 14 offices in seven years. So, he has a lot of knowledge that he emparts to us and our listeners. So without further ado, Dr. Skinner tackles the first question.

Question One comes from a spouse of an addict. She wants to know if there is any level of porn addiction that you do not come back from? Dr. Skinner believes that there is no level of porn that you cannot come back from. He caveats it with there might be skeletons in the addicts closet that have not been disclosed. 

What he means by this is there is most likely child abuse or other past experiences that occurred for that individual that has not been addressed. They are usually running from something. If the individual is willing to do the work, they will heal from the addiction; as well as, from the past trauma. This can be worked through hope in the atonement and with the help of therapists, friends, and family support.

Question Two is from a woman who’s friend disclosed that her husband has viewed child pornography. The husband’s therapist told him that is more likely porn escalation rather than pedophilia. Her friend feels she is beyond hope because of this and she wants to know if there is hope. Dr. Skinner says that most people are not looking at childhood porn. Nevertheless, her question is very important and needs to be addressed.

Dr. Skinner says there must be a differentiation between what type it was. Was it prepubescent, or teenage porn. Also, was it a stumbled across? And is it still happening? These are the follow up questions that should be asked. And just like question one, there is always hope in Christ. If the person is willing to put in the work, there can be true and lasting recovery.

Question Three asks if having Christ in the recovery is necessary? Dr. Skinner believes that addicts always need to have a true connection with others. After all, people are the vehicle (even though they are not perfect) that God or a higher power uses to connect with His children here on earth. At UU, we believe an addict can do it through our Savior Jesus Christ and his infinite Atonement.

If these questions have affected you or someone you know, please feel free to forward this podcast episode to them. We would appreciate you all to become Outsiders. It can be as low as $5 per month. If you have other questions please feel free to email any one of us at UU. 

Ep 24: John and Amy: Searching for the Real Heart of Christ

John and Amy sit down with Steve and CT to talk about their personal stories. John talks about how his home was very ritualistic and rigid in terms of religious views. Amy talks about her home being one of acceptance and being able to talk with her parents openly. They talk about how they met and how they have been able to work through recovery and how it brought them together through Christ. They are an amazing couple. 

John grew up in a very strict religiosity-filled home.  His parents were very rigid, or “religid” as we call it. When John had any questions that could have been considered controversial he was scolded and shamed. Because he was afraid his parents would shame him, he never told anyone about his addiction to pornography. Once, his mom walked in on him at the age of 14 looking at porn on the internet and she made him go to his local church leader. That was not necessarily a bad thing, but unfortunately, there was just more shame shoveled onto him and he never talked about it again. Then Amy came into the picture at the height of his addiction. 

Amy grew up in an LDS home as well, but it was much less rigid. Validation and acceptance were based on performance and behaviors in her family. She was able to talk to her parents about worries and frustrations and felt she had a pretty open and healthy relationship with her parents. She just put a lot of pressure on herself to be perfect. On the outside she was. 

When John and Amy met, they were going to the same church. They dated for a short time before they were married because they both knew their marriage was God approved. Their marriage was amazing at first, but the stress of marriage, school and having kids felt pretty daunting to John and a short time after they were married he started acting out. He masked it through mental illness.

After Amy found out that his mental illness (depression) was caused by his addiction to pornography she started researching how to help him and herself. They never separated but John struggled for a few years. He disclosed something he had done that was illegal to his therapist and his therapist had to force John to turn himself in to the police. Amy was not happy about this. She thought they were making progress so this was devastating to her. To learn more about this please listen to the podcast. 

Through all of the heartache, John and Amy have found love from their Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. They have been able to talk more openly with each other. They both agreed that the recovery path is worth every drop of sweat and all the tears. They have been able to find peace in their hearts and have started working together to spread the word of redemption through platforms like unashamedunafraid.com.

We at Unashamed appreciate John and Amy for allowing us to share their story. If this has affected you or, if you know others who might be struggling, please consider sharing this with them. We are here, Unashamed and Unafraid to share stories about addiction recovery and redemption through Jesus Christ.

Ep 23: Moore on Shame with Dr. Adam Moore

Dr. Moore started his practice in marriage and family therapy in St. George, Utah. He quickly realized there was a problem in families with sexual addiction and betrayal trauma. Dr. Moore decided to specialize in assisting families in these types of issues. He now has several practices throughout Utah and Nevada. He also has a two year waiting list, so he is obviously very good at what he does.

“All addicts (and loved ones of addicts) must focus on: Progress…. Not Perfection.”  -Dr. Adam Moore

Besides talking about how successful Dr. Moore is, Steve and Jason sit down to talk to him about shame. Dr. Moore talks about shame prone families. He also talks about shame and denial work together. Dr. Moore then dives into the roadblocks that we have for true recovery, and this is only during the first twenty minutes. So pull up a chair and listen to this episode. 

Shame is everywhere and can come from everyone, especially from oneself. Most likely, if a person is alive, they have experienced shame. There are several forms of shame and Dr. Moore talks about them in podcast [episode 23]. The first example is growing up in shame prone families. If one’s experience is a home where it is unacceptable to make a mistake, then that is a shame prone family. “Even if that person does the very best that they can… Then their dad (mom, brother, or sister) says, ‘That was pretty good, but here are three things where you could do better.’” 

Another example of a shame prone family is it is unacceptable to make a mistake because that person then gets made fun of. It usually comes in the form of a very cruel joke, or the family makes a joke at that person’s expense. The family tries to highlight all of each others’ weaknesses so no one in the family feels like they are “good enough”. In a sick way, these families do this to feel connected and funny. 

Some questions that may arise from these types of family dynamics are: Does anyone actually even like me? Am I good enough? Do I have what it takes? These questions are at the core of everyone. So what do addicts do? They hide and isolate themselves because they are ashamed of their actions. They are afraid of people viewing them in a negative light.

Dr. Moore talks about becoming a therapist and how it changed people’s behaviors around him. Even some of his friends stopped hanging out with him because they were afraid of him “analyzing” their every word and action. In that scenario all parties have the possibility of feeling shame. So, what advice does Dr. Moore give about combating shame?

Dr. Moore talks about how people need to reach out to others and realize they are not that different from each other. He describes how to have a perspective shift. As an addict one can say to themselves, “Even in my addiction, I am not that different from everybody else.” Dr. Moore talks about how there are only a select number of human stories with myriads of deviations. He is saying that humans are not as different from each other as they think.  Humans are basically wired the same way. Shame can decrease when people connect with each other and with each other’s stories. It is still very important to get everyone’s story out. This will allow the shame to be freed and that is when self compassion can start to affect a person.

Jason was going through the ARP (LDS version of the 12 step program) and he describes the following experience: “Before I shared my step 4 inventory with my sponsor he told me, ‘There is nothing in here that you are going to tell me that won’t surprise me.’ That was incredibly deshaming for me.” This is a major win in the category of self compassion.

Dr. Moore finishes the episode by leaving Steve and Jason with these words:

“You have to be careful not to over rely on this one principle of your addiction. There are people out there that don’t have shame and wish they could stop the addiction. Don’t overemphasize one aspect of the addiction.”

“First of all, the fastest way to shame yourself is to believe that you have wasted your chance for recovery by comparing yourself to others who are in recovery and who have more days of sobriety.” 

“Be patient with yourself. You don’t get to control your recovery and how long it will take to change your addiction. Extreme patience with yourself. Those who stay with the addict need to also come to grips with the fact that it may take their entire lifetime to recover.”

We here at Unashamed Unafraid are so thankful for professionals like Dr. Moore for helping us spread the message of hope and healing in Christ. We hope that you will share this episode with those you love. Everyone will benefit from this episode. Please share it on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. If you haven’t subscribed yet, please subscribe and tell your friends.

Ep 22: Unashamed for the New Year

What a year! 2019 saw a lot of changes for UnashamedUnafraid. The UnashamedUnafraid (UU) Crew is so excited for 2020. This episode is a special tribute to the hard work and dedication of the UU Crew. For more information on the crew, please visit the bio page at UnashamedUnafraid.com. So what is going to be discussed in this special episode? 

The UU Crew sit down and talk about the podcast becoming what it is today. They discuss how it all started and how everyone came to be a part of the Crew. In early 2019, Chris “The Hulk of Hope” and Steve “Rapper Host” made it a goal to record and publish 10 men’s stories and we almost got there! The Crew also talks about which episode was their favorite and what the blog and podcast are going to be in 2020.

Because Chris and Autumn were the first story [episode 1] on UnashamedUnafraid, it seemed like a natural fit for Chris to be the one that Steve talked to about his plans. Especially because Chris was already fighting for the hearts of men through Warriorheart Boot Camps. Where did James “The Assistant to the Regional Manager”, Jason “Darth Vader of Audio” and CT “Lionheart of Editing” come from?

James came into the picture in early 2019. Steve approached him and said he needed help running and growing the podcast. As the “Assistant to the Regional Manager”, James is the one who keeps the entire UU Crew on track. He makes sure that everything is being legitimately run and that everything flows. He brings his strength of fighting for the hearts of men. He also brings passion and strength in fighting for the hearts of women. He is the AV guy for both Warriorheart Boot Camp [episode 15] and Heart of a Woman Retreat [episodes 12 & 19]. 

But the UU Crew wasn’t complete yet. In July they added two more guys, who are probably the most handsome of the UU Crew. CT was approached two years ago by Steve to be a part of the podcast and blog. He saw something in CT about his writing abilities. CT was extremely afraid to put it out there because he gets stage fright. But, after two years, Steve approached him again and said that CT either had to put up or shut up. It was time to act instead of talk. It has been amazing, to say the least for CT (me). CT is also a part of the Warriorheart Boot Camp and it has become an extension of brotherhood joining the UU Crew. Jason, on the other hand, was a bit of a different situation.

Jason approached Steve through email. He told him that he loved listening to the podcasts and they had helped him a ton. He felt inspired to reach out to Steve and offer his services to make the podcast recordings more tolerable to listen to (because our audio was terrible, let’s all just be honest). Jason is an audio engineer at heart. He may sell windows and doors by day, but he is the Lord Vader of Audio by night! The UU Crew would not sound nearly as good as they do without him. Chris, James, and Steve sat down with Jason and realized he was a vital missing piece to the puzzle. With the UU Crew assembled in July, it was time to start recording a ton of episodes. But how can the UU Crew reach more people in the year 2020?

This is where listeners can help. They are going to start monetizing UnashamedUnafraid. The UU Crew discusses the plans for 2020 and how to get involved so UnashamedUnafraid can become a non-profit organization. As a non-profit organization, there is going to be a need for membership fees, donations and more opportunities for the listeners to get involved.

The UU Crew believes in this message so much that they want to be able to use the proceeds from the memberships and donations to assist addicts and loved ones of addicts to be able to get the help that they need. The UU Crew wants to sponsor (through scholarships) more men and women to get individual, group, or couples therapy. The UU Crew also wants to send more people to Warriorheart Boot Camps and Heart of a Woman retreats and any other amazing resource. For some listeners, these things are just a pipe dream. They want to get help but can’t because of financial constraints. The UU Crew has been so blessed through therapy and retreats, that giving back is a way for them and you to help as many men and women as possible. 

The UU Crew cannot do this alone. They talk about what the listeners might be able to receive as a special thanks and appreciation for their assistance in this process of bringing more people into recovery. The UU Crew will be providing additional content and (for lack of a better term) gratitude swag for the donations and subscriptions from the listeners. Plus the subscribers will be receiving a virtual (if possible a real) famous hug from CT. 

The UU Crew loved 2019. It was “brutiful”, inspiring, full of love and restoration. They want to continue to share inspiration from our Savior. They have learned once again by sharing recovery stories that Christ is there for everyone, whether it be for recovery from an addiction or from trauma. Christ is the Healer, Redeemer, Savior, and Friend for all. Everyone can get involved by donating to this cause. The UU Crew and all those who benefit from this will be grateful for the donations. Donations will be used only to cover costs and create scholarships. The UU Crew will continue to work for free because we want any donation to go directly to helping someone in recovery and healing.  

From the Crew at UnashamedUnafraid, we wish you a very Happy New Year. May this year be the year for you to become and remain unashamed and unafraid through the hope and healing of Christ Jesus. If you have been blessed by this message and want to inspire others, please share this message on social media, subscribe to our podcast, and review us on iTunes. UnashamedUnafraid can be heard on any major podcast station. Thank you for your participation this year and for years to come. 

God Bless You,

UU Crew

Ep 21: Q & A Answers: Boundaries with Addicts and is God Part of Recovery?

Merry Christmas! Here is a special episode where all of the players in Unashamed Unafraid (UU) come together and answer listeners’ anonymous questions. We really appreciate all of the people who have tuned in this year. We have something special coming in the year to come but this won’t be discussed in this episode. What will be discussed in this episode is the questions from anonymous listeners like you.

In this episode the UU Crew and Kristy (wife of James) discuss the following questions:

1. Forgetting who we are to God, Figuring out our true selves, and the tools we have used.

2. Why can’t an addict stop?

3. Can an addict just stop cold turkey? Is there more? Are their lies?

4. Why did Heavenly Father tell me to stay with him through all the lies? Why did my husband continue to get called to be a leader in the church when he wasn’t living right? Is anything about my 40-year marriage real or true? How could he watch us (my kids and I) suffer because of his actions?

5. Can abuse be the reason for my addiction? How do I get rid of this addiction without therapy or telling my parents? Does God still care?

6. How can I help him to be willing and accountable?

7. Can a person truly be recovered without a spiritual component? How do I trust his recovery is genuine if there is no God to answer to?

Steve, Chris, James, CT, and Jason tackle all of those questions through their personal experiences and insights from their own recovery stories. Plus, Kristy gives great insight into what it is like for the betrayed to answer these questions too. These questions are awesome and we love them because we are reminded that we are human too and sometimes forget the answers that we are sharing on this podcast.

Question 1: Have any of you guys experienced a “forgetfulness” of who you are to God? And have you figured out who your true self is? If you have what tools, things, whatever, did you do to find your true self once again? And what are you continuing to do to learn more about what God’s plan is for you?

We all have experienced a forgetfulness of who we are in God. We continue to be reminded through our brokenness that God loves us. We found that really asking God to tell us who we are in Him is really what we must do. Then we need to accept the answer He gives us. Oftentimes, we see his love through “love notes” a sunset, through wildlife, through other brothers, etc. This can seem too hippy-ish but, James talks about how he had to experience the hippy-ish side of God before he realized just who God was to him. We just need to be reminded that He loves us no matter what. He will always be there for us. 

Question 2: Why can’t an addict stop?

We have all (including the addicts) asked this question. Steve also speaks about having to love an addict. It can be very difficult to love someone who wants to isolate. You don’t want to do it, you say you don’t want to do it, and then you do it. Chris explains that it comes down to a choice. Steve gives an analogy for people who don’t struggle with a sex addiction but may have another struggle with something else that comforts them. CT talks about how connection is the way out of addiction. Jason sums it all up by saying that addiction is not the problem. The problems in a person’s life leads to addiction. So, if we can address the problems in our lives healthily, we can overcome the addiction.

Question 3: Is it possible/realistic to believe that an addict can go cold turkey and completely stop acting out and that he has fully disclosed to me? If not, what is the best way for me to approach him to get the truth? 

Kristy describes how she has been able to recover from the betrayal of lies. She talks about how the betrayed have to get their own healing from the addiction. Kristy describes the tools that the betrayed must use to cope with the recovery/addiction of their spouse. She also talks about trusting intuition that is felt. Women usually are right in their intuition when it comes to lies. Steve talks about the difference between having a continued nagging feeling and a triggering situation. 

Question 4: Why did Heavenly Father tell me to stay with him through all the lies? Why did my husband continue to get called to be a leader in the church when he wasn’t living right? Is anything about my 40-year marriage real or true? How could he watch us (my kids and I) suffer because of his actions?

Steve mournfully said, “First of all, I am sorry.”

Next, Steve explained that her husband may have looked like he was not suffering, but he was. He was just showing everyone the person he thought he should be. Steve also talks about how even though from a church standpoint your husband may not have been “worthy” for the callings, God still will use a person despite their choices.

Kristy talks about how frustrating it must be. She also talks about how it is okay to ask the question why. It is okay because the Lord will stay with you. Her advice was to stay with the Lord and continue to ask the questions. He will answer you. He has always been there with you.

Question 5: Can abuse be the reason for my addiction? How do I get rid of this addiction without going through therapy or telling my parents? Does God even care?

The group talks about how minimizing sexual abuse is what the abused do. It is always a big deal. We also talk about how there is no way for someone to recover from a sexual addiction without others. There has to be therapy and a safe person(s) in the life of an addict for true healing and recovery.

Question 6: How can I help him to be willing and accountable?

The group agrees that the betrayed can never help the addict be willing and accountable. Kristy explains, “You cannot do therapy for him.” You cannot heal your husband. He is the one who has to be the one to do the work of recovery. She also says that the betrayed needs to find the help that they need. There may come a point in the marriage where the distance between the addict and the betrayed is too great. Bottom line, the betrayed need to get the help they need too. 

Question 7: Can a person truly be recovered without a spiritual component? How do I trust his recovery is genuine if there is no God to answer to?

Generally speaking, the people outside of the Christian realm, religious realm, etc. do not believe that sexual addiction is a real thing. This question will be answered based on the belief in the religious aspect. All of us tried to recover without the spiritual component and we all have failed. 

If these are some of the same questions you or you know someone who would benefit from getting these questions answered, please share this episode with them. They may not thank you now, but they will eventually grow to understand that the only way to be in true recovery is through connection and being unashamed and unafraid to come to Jesus Christ. We at UnashamedUnafraid encourage anyone who is struggling with these questions to invite Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ into their lives. Please visit us at UnashamedUnafraid.com or on Instagram, Facebook, and twitter at @unshamedunafraid. Enjoy the episode and remember that Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are always for each and every one of us.

Resources:

The Shack - William Paul Young

Wild At Heart - John Eldredge

Following the Light of Christ - John Ponteus

Fathered By God - John Eldredge 

Ep 20: Matt’s Story - By Surrendering He Received Redemption

Steve and Jason sit down with an amazing man named Matt. Matt was on EP 18: Intro to 12 Step & ARP Meetings and explained a little bit of his story with the group. This time, he gets to talk all about his story. He opens up about his rocky childhood due to misguided views on what real connection should be. He also talks about how his parents were not safe. He talks about his relationships now and what has changed. He finishes by talking about what recovery means to him and his family. 

Matt was born to two very broken parents. He realized why very quickly. Even though he is the oldest child alive. He has four more brothers and sisters that came before him, but died before he was born. He did not have real connection so he sought out friendships that led him to pornography and masturbation through magazines and movies. This was the escape that he thought he needed because of his parents' absence in the home. He also found “love” through his girlfriend and she ended up getting pregnant. They married quickly and were divorced even faster.

“I did not have a love foundation at home. So I looked forward to being with my girlfriend.”

Matt then talked about how he was in major custody battles for his daughter. His ex-wife was making up terrible things about him to make him give up custody of their daughter. His daughter would end up being his inspiration for working so hard and trying hard in school. His daughter became sort of mascot for him and his friends during college. She became their inspiration too. Matt then started working at Disney and met the girl of his dreams. 

Matt and his dream girl started hanging out. He introduced her to his daughter and instantly they clicked. She was exactly who he needed because she was very positive and Matt’s life had been so negative up to this point. Matt married the girl and they were in heaven, but Matt fell back into the trap of pornography due to changing circumstances. His wife caught him and he confessed. Nothing of consequence really happened so he started it back up again pretty quick.

Matt then took it to the next level and started having an emotional affair with a classmate. Matt continued down this path for quite a while and soon found himself having an affair with his boss and another woman. When his wife found out about it, she told him that she would fight this battle with him. Matt was excommunicated from his church and still lived at home. His wife was fighting for his heart. Little did she know, but they were losing the battle. Because there was no real consequences he continued down the path of pornography and masturbation that led to having another affair. After that, his wife kicked him out and it finally hit him what he had done to this courageous and amazing woman.

Matt’s wife said that she was done being hurt by him and he would never hurt her again. She continued to recover on her own and so did Matt. She would make him come and take care of the kids and he got an impression that he should serve her without expectations. So he did. He cleaned the entire house while she would leave and then when she came home he slipped out the front door. Even though Matt continued to do this for months, his wife still wanted a divorce and that is where they were headed. Then one day she asked him why he wanted to be married to her. After his wife read an email from Matt, they started to repair their marriage. Matt saw her willingness to surrender and trust that Heavenly Father would be there for her and it inspired him to do the same.  Matt decided to surrender and that is when the real recovery started. 

Matt explained that he is not perfect and never will be on earth. Matt has had a lot of help through therapy, ARP, journaling, working out. Since Matt has done these things, he has realized that we all have been sent to earth to fail. Knowing that helps him understand and trust that Heavenly Father has a plan for all of us. Matt continues to encourage men to step out and surrender because it is the only way to true redemption. 

Matt’s story is raw and very real and we at Unashamed Unafraid are deeply grateful that he entrusted us with his story. Please share this with someone you know who could benefit from this post. Please listen to our podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 19: Heart of A Woman Retreat: Personal Experiences

Keshia explained, “It was so pure and simple and was focused on the sole connection with God. I am not fighting that anymore. God is okay with where I am at.” 

Kristi, Mindy, and Keshia sit down with James and Steve and talk about the Heart of a Woman Retreat. They discuss what their lives are like right now, what their apprehensions were before going to the retreat, talk about what they learned there, what they would tell someone about the retreat, and who might be on the fence about going. The women are extremely open and vulnerable about their experiences and is an episode that will make you laugh and cry in the same breath. If this affects you and you know others who might be struggling, please consider sharing this with them because we are here Unashamed and Unafraid to share stories about addiction, recovery, and redemption through Jesus Christ.

Kristi has had a pretty crazy nine years. Nine years ago she got divorced and started taking care of her three kids on her own. She felt far away from God and that He had abandoned her. The last straw was she recently found out that her cancer is back. She had still been hurting from the divorce. Her friend Becky told her about the retreat and she decided to go. 

Mindy has been married for 18 years and she has been in betrayal recovery from her husband's addiction for the past two years. Mindy developed a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms. She turned her back on God. She also developed self-loathing because of the betrayal. She heard about the retreat on our podcast and told her husband about it. He immediately signed her up.

Keshia was married to her spouse for 8 years and she found out about her husband’s addiction 5 years into the marriage. She decided to get divorced and they have been divorced for 18 months now. Funny story, they are dating now. She heard about the retreat and decided to go because she was in a chaotic stage with her faith knowing that she could not go back to just living the “formula gospel”. 

So what were their apprehensions or fears about going to the retreat? 

All three of them felt so scared about not being able to connect with God. They did not feel that they would be the same after the retreat. They wanted to know if God really loved them and knew them personally. They were excited to report that God showed up in a big way! Here are some of the quotes that they said about what happened:

Mindy said, “It felt like light had been shined in my heart, in places that I had no idea were there.”

Kristi commented, “The prayers that were offered in that little circle were the prayers that will stay stuck in my heart, for years.”

They all explained that anyone thinking about going just needs to go. Mindy shared the scripture John 4:19 that says, “We love Him because He first loved us.” So, God gave us Jesus Christ and now it is our turn to move into that love. 

We at UnashamedUnafraid encourage anyone to reach out and go to either the Heart of a Woman Retreat or to A Warrior Heart Boot Camp, this is a great place to reconnect our souls to The Source of all the fruits of the spirit found in Galatians 5:22 and 23. If you or anyone you know might be struggling, please consider sharing this with them. Please listen to our podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook @UnashamedUnafraid. We all need someone who loves us enough to fight for our hearts, and God is there to do that.

Next Retreat is

Feb 20-22, 2020

Discount Code:

CYBER for $50 off on Cyber Monday.

UNASHAMED for a discount thereafter

Ep 18: Intro to 12 Step & ARP Meetings

“Addiction is a very private and lonely space and once someone comes into a meeting, they realize that they are not alone.” - Randy

“My anxiety was a 17 out of 10. I was shaking because I was afraid I would see someone I knew there. I got in there and saw two people and my instant emotion was relief.” - Matt

Jason, Matt, Randy and Steve sit down and talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints’ (LDS) ARP. This is a version of the AA 12 step program created by Bill W. The difference between the two versions is that the LDS Church focuses on the relationship that a person has with Jesus Christ. This episode focuses on what ARP is, what it is not, and how it can help the addict. ARP is a great start on the road to recovery. Listen in to find out about the healing and help Jason and Matt have received through the ARP program.

ARP is for those looking for a place of love, acceptance and forgiveness. It is a place where people can feel safe to talk openly about their struggles with addiction. The first-timers really feel relief when they walk through the doors because they realize they are not alone in the struggle. Matt talks about how he felt relieved when he saw people he knew; “My anxiety was a 17 out of 10. I was shaking, because I was afraid I would see someone I knew there. I got in there and saw two people and my instant emotion was relief.” ARP is not for everyone but is a great first step.

One issue some seasoned addicts have with ARP is that there are instances where there is no sobriety in these meetings. However, it takes a while for people to understand that they belong, they matter and that the addiction is just a mask for a deeper issue. This is where ARP may not be as beneficial for certain people because of what it is not: ARP is not a place where a person can get one on one help. ARP will likely not be run by a therapist. It is run by a facilitator. Facilitators guide the meetings and ensure there is no crosstalk or interruptions during a person’s share. It is not group therapy. 

In group therapy, a person sits with other people and a therapist and talks about his/her struggles with addiction. Steve describes an experience he had with group therapy and how the therapist interjected to teach and help Steve about what he was doing. 

Jason then continues and talks about what the four steps of support can be for the addict. 

ARP is the first step in this road of support. It is a support system for men to receive love and connection from other men. The second step is an accountability partner who is there for the addict. The third step is very similar to the second because it is having an accountability partner who will call the addict out on his/her crap. The fourth step which might be necessary is having a therapist. 

The bottom line is that ARP is there to assist men/women on the road to recovery. Randy believes that ARP is about repentance. The term repentance in German is “to turn about”. Repentance is to turn away from sin and never go back. This leads all men to redemption and change.

Please share this with someone you know who could benefit from this post. Please listen to our podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook @UnashamedUnafraid.

12 Step Meetings:

Ep 17: Theron Recovery Story - A Story of Healing and Redemption

“What I did not realize is that Heavenly Father was telling me that He had to sever the old relationship for a new one.” -Theron

Theron’s story is one of deep tragedy and amazing healing. It was an incredible experience to sit with him while he shared the immense difficulty and pain he has faced as well as hearing him talk about how he found healing, change, and hope. Despite all he experienced, he has gained an intimate relationship with God. Although Theron is still working on this recovery, the way he talks about his marriage and his new relationship with God is truly inspiring. Sharing stories that are unashamed and unafraid is our mission. However, this means they are usually raw, real and authentic. DISCLAIMER: Theron’s story has some traumatic experiences he faced in his childhood, so be forewarned.      

Theron was born into this world under extremely difficult circumstances. Theron’s dad and grandfather subjected him to things that no person should ever have to witness or experience. At five (or six) years old, he witnessed his father rape his sister and was subjected to ritualistic abuse and torture himself. 

Theron’s parents split up when he was 10 years old. Despite the abuse by his dad, he decided to stay with him because his mother was gone emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually. Theron had to grow up fast. He recalled having to regularly eat TV dinners and similar meals because of his dad’s neglect. As he grew up, he found distraction in drugs and alcohol. It was a good way to numb the pain of his childhood and the feelings of being unlovable and unworthy of anyone’s love. As a child and teen, Theron avoided God because he believed God did not love him and that he was worthless. 

But as Theron’s life was spiraling out of control with drug use, he felt like God intervened and wanted him to clean up his life. Theron went on to serve an LDS mission and thought that it was his one shot at redemption. Because Theron wasn’t perfectly obedient, he thought he was a terrible missionary and had blown that shot. 

When he returned home, Theron decided to move to Colorado where he met the love of his life. Life was good with her for the first couple of years. Eventually, Theron fell into pornography while attending college. Over time his sexual acting out went further and further until he ended up having affairs. He was full of shame and convinced that his wife would divorce him if he told her about it so he put together a plan. The plan was that as soon as his youngest left home to go to college, he would divorce his wife and then get help. Over time, he realized he couldn’t wait that long and told his wife he wanted a divorce. She said, “No, we need to go to counseling first.” At this time Theron had not disclosed anything yet. Fast forward several months of therapy, Theron chose to spill all of his secrets to his wife, including the horrible things from his childhood. Theron wrote down everything. Once Theron opened up to his wife, he was scared that he would be “excommunicated” from his church. Excommunication is when a person loses their membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

“What I did not realize is that Heavenly Father was telling me that He had to sever the old relationship for a new one;” full of love and compassion. Theron has felt so much outpouring of love from his Heavenly Father. He has had some personal and sacred experiences that he deeply cherishes. Theron has learned from his Father in Heaven how to truly love people and be present for them. 

Theron still has his struggles with pornography, but he is “All In” when it comes to his recovery. He is completely honest about his struggles and understands that he is not perfect. That is okay for him because he knows his Father in Heaven still loves him fully and deeply. He has the trust and hope that he will win this war. 

It was an honor to interview Theron. His story is extremely raw and real, but he has survived to tell it. And we at Unashamed Unafraid know that his story will impact someone who might be struggling.

Please share this with someone you know who could benefit from this hopeful story.  Please also listen to our podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook @UnashamedUnafraid.

Ep 7 - Anonymous Questions Answered: Bipolar, Dailies, & Shame

“Hyper-sexuality is beyond lust. It is insatiable. 57% of Bipolar depressed during their manic phase are hyper sexual. You are not alone” - Todd

For our 7th Anonymous Questions episode, we brought back a favorite guest Todd Olson, LCSW. Todd is one of the founders of LifeSTAR and practices here in Utah. He will address three questions we received. The first one is about dealing with sexual addiction while having bipolar disorder. The second one is about dailies and what they are. The third one is about shame. Shame is such a big topic that we will be covering that in a future podcast. As always we commend the courage of our anonymous question-askers for being willing to reach out and be vulnerable.  

Question: Does hyper-sexuality in those with Bipolar disordered have any relevance here? The urges to act out to feed that sexual desire can be overwhelming. At this point, sex is not fun. It is more of a compulsion. It can lead to affairs, excessive masturbation ( sometimes many times in one day, and more). How does one overcome this- especially since bipolar disorder is a lifelong disease? How does one reconcile breaking the commandments with such a serious sin and feeling the shame and fear that this will happen again?

Answer: Todd explains that it is good this “caller”  has an awareness that they have a version of bipolar disorder and they are aware of their symptoms. He also talks about how their story needs to be heard. Just like how all of struggling with addiction don’t battle alone. Those struggling with bipolar disorder also need support around them who know their story and what they are struggling with.

Todd goes on to explain the different types of Bipolar disorders. There are five different types: Bipolar Depressed, Bipolar Mania, Bipolar Mixed, HypoMania, Dysthymia. The nice thing about this mental health disorder is it can be managed and there are three things that will help a person with Bipolar disorder manage it:

1. Get Help from a medical doctor, psychiatrist, or an advanced nurse practitioner.

2. Get on the right medications - This is the most important!

3. Have a trusted friend to walk you through this

Bottom Line: Everyone’s story needs to be heard and bipolar can be managed, although it’s not easy. We are praying for you! 

Question: I’m a recovering addict to pornography as well as an ARP missionary. I did my recovery a little backward because I got called to be an ARP missionary, got inspired to make changes, and started working the steps. I feel like I’m fairly new to the 12 step recovery scene. My question is about “dailies”. I hear people talk about doing their dailies and I’m not exactly sure what they mean. I understand the importance of daily communion with God and meaningful scripture study but is there more that I’m missing? Can you explain what people mean when they talk about dailies?

Answer: What are Dailies? Why do addicts need them? How do I know if they are working? Normal people do dailies. They do not think about it. It is a part of their routine. We as addicts have gotten off track and the addiction has hijacked our brain. 

Dailies are activities that will help us connect to God. As addicts, we have disconnected from God because of our shame. He cares about the addiction because He knows that real connection is so much better. The dailies are a way for our brain to heal itself and help us stay on track. “Dailies are a temporary brake system to stay on track while their brain heals”.

The biggest thing about dailies that we need to remember is that they cannot be so rigid. We need a variety of ways to connect with God. Sure reading scriptures and saying prayers are great ways to connect, but they don’t always work. If we stay rigid, we will just go through the motions and fall right back into the addiction because our heart is not in it. Also, do not have too many dailies. If you get overwhelmed because of your dailies, you are not connecting. Connection is a big way we feel God’s love for us in the deepest of levels. If we don’t consciously strive to feel connected to His love daily, we will fall back into the addiction. 

We also need to remember that our bodies need rest and exercise. If we are not getting enough rest or exercise our brains do not function properly. Our brains need oxygen. Rest,  exercise and water are great ways to get oxygen to our brains. Our brains need these to heal the addiction. 

Bottom Line: We need three things to have successful dailies: creativity, excitement, and relaxation. 

Question: What are effective tactics in breaking the shame cycle? I understand that there's a difference between shame (I am bad) versus guild (I've done a bad thing) but I'm spinning my wheels trying to break free from shame. What have folks shared that you've found helpful on this aspect of addiction?

Answer: We must become an expert on shame to know how to deal with it. The cycle starts out with the control phase. The person is trying to get control of their life. Examples are cleaning, exercising, and getting healthy. Basically we want to manage the outcome. We will blame, placate (go with the flow), we are going to read the scriptures better and study harder. But that is too much to ask of anyone. It winds the person up and then they fall.

When we fail, we are taken to the release phase. The release phase is where all the addiction comes out. Lacking self-control, acting out, are all part of the release phase. That is where all the shame comes into play. When we have shame we decide that we are going to do better and try harder. This is a setup. Nobody will be able to withstand this cycle.

James and Chris talk about how they broke the shame cycle by understanding who God was and how much compassion Heavenly Father has for each and every one of us.  When they saw that Heavenly Father wanted to love them without boundaries, they started to have self-compassion. 

If we are looking to manage the outcome, we must let go of that. Shame hates exposure but honesty is the only way out of shame. Learning not to manage outcome is the way into true freedom. When we do that, we are ready for the next step.

The final step is figuring out what healthy shame is. Learning this and applying it to help us want to change through asking for help or clarification on something is extremely freeing. Then, we must ask ourselves where this came from? It came from how we were growing up. We needed to manage how people viewed us. It was a way to survive. Todd equates the vulnerability and letting go of control as a form of a death experience. It is scary but it is worth it.

We hope this helped answer your questions and again commend the courage of our anonymous question answers for helping all of us in recovery with their vulnerability. Thank you!